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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 6/20/2008 1:37:59 PM
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doinkdom
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I've read it - great book.
Only had one complaint and it was fairly minor and subjective...
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 6/20/2008 3:05:28 PM
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cheeky_monkey
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What was the complaint? Did it make you see anything completely different? Tithing is a big one. I'm a tither, but it really made me question giving my tithe to the church I attend. As of now, I still do, but if the Lord leads me to give someplace else, I will. I can't even stress how conflicted I've been about this since reading the book, probably more than what some would consider normal.
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 6/25/2008 12:09:28 PM
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rapturefish
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I've read the book and it's a real firecracker to a lot of the biggest things we've come to expect with church - the church building, the role of the pastor, the place of worship and especially (for me anyway), the use of scripture and the order of the letters of Paul as well the New Testament in the bible!
Having been through the wringer with churches and currently on the edge of my current church (that is, not being involved but maintaining a distance while I recover) reading this book has been timely - I don't think I could've read it in the past before all the disenchantment with church because I would've been too close to the church and holding onto it too tightly. But now, when I read it so much of it makes sense, it's all falling into place as subconscious suspicions I've had of the church at large finally find themselves in print.
It's started me on a journey to question everything the church is now and how different it is from the first-century church, and what should work now. I'm reading books like "Organic Church" by Neil Cole and "Organic Community" by Joseph Myers and finding a whole different paradigm through which to look at church, one that starts rather simply and on a micro level as opposed to the hierarchical church institution.
"Pagan Christianity?" is not easy to read if you love church as you know it, which is not the same as loving God (a distinction that's very easy to miss). But finally I can see why I find that old heritage-listed sandstone building irks me, along with the pews and the distant, formal nature of a church service. I see why so many fail to get active with the church, the 20% are doing so in spite of a system that encourages passivity. I can hide in churches like those, and the bigger it is the better for hiding. But to do church the way of the 1st century is a soulsearch too - you are asked to be involved as all people are, and you cannot hide.
The theses put forth are bold and no cautious language or academic passivities are there to soften things - which I find so refreshing in an age where inoffensiveness and PC language dominate. You may disagree, but you never doubt that a clear view has been put on the table for discussion and response.
I loved the books and I think everyone should read them and discuss the material with each other. If it offends or sounds too blunt, be assured, behind it all the authors care for and are passionate about the church. If a lot of the church is practising things that run contrary to the spirit and the intention of what God had in mind, then reformation is not only a good idea but an imperative for survival.
I don't love this book as a bitter church-hurt christian but as one who has had to think a lot about what church is in light of a small number of bad church experiences. I don't wish to flame the church but I certainly don't believe the church is at all healthy and in danger of going under. How many good people have been hurt by church and left out, while others continue to do church in ways that keep people out rather than invite them in?
Read it, be blown away and offended. Then, after a time of contemplation discuss it with those you know well. Examine anew what you do at church and what the ideas behind how done for the church or against it.
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 6/26/2008 2:14:47 AM
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cheeky_monkey
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I wasn't offended at all by the book. I look at things so much differently than I did before though. It's hard because right now I don't know what God wants me to do with some of the stuff I read.
Lucy
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 6/26/2008 8:36:52 AM
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lexie
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I'm trying to get my hands on this book right now (I don't have the money to buy it and my library doesn't carry it.)
I'm interested because what I have read of it so far (which really isn't a lot) is very similar to our church and also to the changes that our church is going through right now.
Our church is not your typical model of a church in North America in 2008. It is something that we struggle with when inviting people to church, and something we are trying to overcome. Which is why this book seems like an interesting read to me.
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 6/26/2008 10:21:58 AM
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miasma
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I've owned it for several years. I stumbled across it doing research for work correlating Christianity with Wicca/pagan religions. Frank Viola's great. It's a great book, one of many in my library showcasing what is wrong with "Christianity" as seen in this country, today. How little it bears resemblance to the actual faith, as taught by Christ in Scripture.
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 7/13/2008 1:48:56 AM
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ConstantReader
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Why in the world would someone tone down the tenor of this book?
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 7/13/2008 4:01:44 PM
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inchristsblood
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looks like an interesting book.....I think I will see if my library has it. For those of you that read it. did the book also provide any direction for change other than how you view things?
ICB
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ISA 44:5 One will say, 'I belong to the LORD ';
another will call himself by the name of Jacob;
still another will write on his hand, 'The LORD's,'
and will take the name Israel.
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 7/30/2008 1:01:44 AM
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fallenstar
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I used to be a pagan and now I'm a Christian, so it sounds OK. I'm more of fantasy\horror fan, stuff like Dracula and Twilight, but I think it would be a good innformative read.
Wicca is greatly misunderstood by Christians. Almost all new age is. I'm at least glad some people are will to be generous enough to understand.
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 7/30/2008 10:44:43 AM
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miasma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
I used to be a pagan and now I'm a Christian, so it sounds OK. I'm more of fantasy\horror fan, stuff like Dracula and Twilight, but I think it would be a good innformative read.
Wicca is greatly misunderstood by Christians. Almost all new age is. I'm at least glad some people are will to be generous enough to understand.
Fallenstar, Pagan Christianity is not about pagan and/or New Age religions.
It is, succintly put, an expose on how modern-day practices accepted as Christianity are nothing more than societal behaviours adopted at some point in history - most quite recently, and have nothing to do with Christianity as intended, by Christ, in Scripture.
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 7/30/2008 2:26:20 PM
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fallenstar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: miasma
quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
I used to be a pagan and now I'm a Christian, so it sounds OK. I'm more of fantasy\horror fan, stuff like Dracula and Twilight, but I think it would be a good innformative read.
Wicca is greatly misunderstood by Christians. Almost all new age is. I'm at least glad some people are willing to be generous enough to understand.
Fallenstar, Pagan Christianity is not about pagan and/or New Age religions.
It is, succintly put, an expose on how modern-day practices accepted as Christianity are nothing more than societal behaviours adopted at some point in history - most quite recently, and have nothing to do with Christianity as intended, by Christ, in Scripture.
Then these religous groups are NOT pagan, they are a mock cult. If they think they are Christians, then they are defidently not New Age or pagan, and from what you say they are not real Christians either.
Whoever wrote that book seriously needs to educate themselves.
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 8/29/2008 2:10:00 PM
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GroupW
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Doink-
This one's been on my list for a while. Recommend or not recommend, given that I have a bunch of books ahead of that one right now?
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 8/31/2008 12:41:29 AM
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wshepherd
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A friend gave it to me and I don't think I read half of it. I found it very negative and church-bashing. I prefer to read books of a more positive and encouraging nature. But that's just me.
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 9/3/2008 2:32:17 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4310
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Doink-
This one's been on my list for a while. Recommend or not recommend, given that I have a bunch of books ahead of that one right now?
Hmmm...it is good and all, but I'd say skip it and buy it used on Amazon when ever you're ready to read it.
My concern is a bit of an "I'm better than you" attitude when it comes to being in a house church rather than a "building" church. It's an us or them thing, when by doing that, the whole premise of the book is lessened.
I'm more on the Driscoll side of EC than the Bell side anyways so that prolly taints it a bit.
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 9/9/2008 10:48:20 AM
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miasma
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I didn't find the book negative, nor did I get a "better than you" tone from it. I found it merely informative, and thought-provoking.
Of course, if you prefer your brain not be provoked into thinking, and would rather float along in Janette Oke or Rick Warren land, you probably won't enjoy Pagan Christianity.
Though, I haven't read it since it was first published (a few years ago, now?).
It was a big Xmas book present, including Pagan Christianity, A Serrated Edge: A Brief Defense of Biblical Satire and Trinitarian Skylarking and Pagan and Christian in an Age of Anxiety: Some Aspects of Religious Experience from Marcus Aurelius to Constantine.
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 9/9/2008 10:52:16 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4310
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quote:
ORIGINAL: miasma
Of course, if you prefer your brain not be provoked into thinking, and would rather float along in Janette Oke or Rick Warren land, you probably won't enjoy Pagan Christianity.
Not a fan of either of them...not even close
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 10/5/2008 8:12:21 PM
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rgsoundguy
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It's on my shelf. I have skimmed it, but haven't read it entirely. I think it's a good concept, but I am happy with the Church I am at, and no it's not a home church. My pastor seems to think along the lines of the church helping the community including helping its own members.
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Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 11/16/2008 5:47:05 AM
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novitiate
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No I haven't but thanks for the heads up. It sounds like a very interesting read.
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 11/16/2008 8:28:47 AM
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floydette
Posts: 1086
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
quote:
ORIGINAL: miasma
quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
I used to be a pagan and now I'm a Christian, so it sounds OK. I'm more of fantasy\horror fan, stuff like Dracula and Twilight, but I think it would be a good innformative read.
Wicca is greatly misunderstood by Christians. Almost all new age is. I'm at least glad some people are willing to be generous enough to understand.
Fallenstar, Pagan Christianity is not about pagan and/or New Age religions.
It is, succintly put, an expose on how modern-day practices accepted as Christianity are nothing more than societal behaviours adopted at some point in history - most quite recently, and have nothing to do with Christianity as intended, by Christ, in Scripture.
Then these religous groups are NOT pagan, they are a mock cult. If they think they are Christians, then they are defidently not New Age or pagan, and from what you say they are not real Christians either.
Whoever wrote that book seriously needs to educate themselves.
"Pagan", used in 1C was basically anyone who wasn't (in some circles) Jewish or Christian.( don't remember which one) Regardless, it wasn't about New Age. So it isn't about Viola needing to educate himself as it is different eras of word definitions. He is using the one that is 2000 yrs old. You are using one that is more recent.
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RE: Has anyone read "Pagan Christianity?" - 11/22/2008 4:05:13 AM
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lightbeamrider
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Read this thread. Went to Barnes and Nobel and there it was. Bought it and started to read it tonight. It's a page turner!
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