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Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/19/2008 7:47:22 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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From: a mother who let me live
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I welcome others to come on this thread to both answer my question and ask their own regarding real situations they are facing with homeless and/or poor persons in their communities.
My present problem:
Last Friday, I watched as a homeless man walked down the street with what looked like a nice lawnmower. He would stop people and talk to them, until he stopped one who moved things about in his car, placed the lawnmower in the car, and handed the man a small roll of cash. The man headed up the street.
Tuesday, the same man, pushing what looked like a new, red lawn edger or small tiller, stopped another man on the street and talked to him. This man went in his house, came out and handed the homeless man a small wad of cash, then the man took the edger.
Today, Wednesday, the man came down the street with what looked like a brand new black lawnmower. He talked to two men who didn't take it. He went up to a house and knocked, but no one answered. He went on down the street. I went down and talked to the two men. The man had tried to sell them the mower, and they told him to "get lost."
This man is obviously homeless. This may be his only food/booze/drug/housing money for the day -- who's to know. But I believe, with good reason, that some person(s) out there are minus two lawnmowers and an edger/tiller and who knows what else. How can we assume that they can afford this? Regardless, it is likely theft. I can't sit about and watch him all day, but I just happened to see him on these days.
What would you do?
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/19/2008 8:18:22 PM
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zamdad
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Call the police. Let them know what you saw. Give a good description of the man and the pieces of equipment you observed. If they've been reported stolen, you may have helped solve a crime. If they are not stolen, it could be that the guy fixes things and sells them. Lastly, engage the man in conversation and ask him some direct questions.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/19/2008 9:24:52 PM
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manda59
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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
Call the police. Let them know what you saw. Give a good description of the man and the pieces of equipment you observed. If they've been reported stolen, you may have helped solve a crime. If they are not stolen, it could be that the guy fixes things and sells them. Lastly, engage the man in conversation and ask him some direct questions.
I agree with zamdad - all except the last bit. If I were you, I would not approach this guy (for reasons of personal safety). I'd leave the police to ask the questions.
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"I think Manda and I are on the same page"
crankius, January 2009
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RE: Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/20/2008 1:52:54 AM
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Roberta_
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Call the police and let them handle it. They can determine if he is committing a crime and if he needs help, they can help him get it.
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RE: Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/20/2008 2:22:55 AM
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Bluethread
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He may just be an entrepreneur. It is not appropriate to presume wrong doing without two or more wittnesses. It sounds to me like a perfect opportunity to strike up a conversation and recognize him as part of the community. ie"How's business?" We are commanded to show kindness to strangers for we were strangers in Eygpt. Paul reinforces this principle by telling us that many who have done this have entertained angels without knowing it. The Messiah Himself tells the righteous, "I was hungry and you gave me to eat, I was naked and you clothed me."
However, if we must be cynical, nothing deters crime like community.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/20/2008 2:41:27 AM
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Roberta_
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If you do decide to approach him, I hope that you will take at least two other adults along with you. Yes, the Bible does tell us to feed the hungry. It also tells us that there is strength in numbers.
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RE: Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/20/2008 2:52:31 AM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
If you do decide to approach him, I hope that you will take at least two other adults along with you. Yes, the Bible does tell us to feed the hungry. It also tells us that there is strength in numbers.
Given where you are from, I understand your concern.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/20/2008 3:24:40 AM
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Roberta_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: Roberta_
If you do decide to approach him, I hope that you will take at least two other adults along with you. Yes, the Bible does tell us to feed the hungry. It also tells us that there is strength in numbers.
Given where you are from, I understand your concern.
Has nothing to do with where I currently reside. It's a matter of safety and common sense.
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RE: Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/20/2008 8:20:40 AM
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lexie
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I would call the police and let them know what you've seen. If there are people in the neighbourhood who have reported the items stolen then the police would probably step up patrols in the neighbourhood or put out a notice for residents.
If the man were to approach me (I wouldn't approach him, but if I were outside or something) I would just say "that's a great idea, where are you getting these from?" Chances are he won't tell you but you can gauge his reaction.
I would also in conversation with other neighbours mention the guy, mention my concern and ask if they know anyone who has had their lawnmowers go missing.
_____________________________
I want to be more than an ordinary servant.
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RE: Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/20/2008 8:21:56 AM
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P31W
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Contact the police.
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RE: Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/20/2008 10:11:17 AM
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zamdad
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A couple of things strike me about this conversation. One, most agree to call the police. There is disagreement as to talking to te man. Here's my take on this. First, talk to the police. Let them know what you've seen. Second, talk to the man. Third, stay in contact with the police.
I understand the concerns against talking to the man. He may be dangerous. Then again, he may be harmless. Just because he looks scary doesn't mean he is. Some of the concern is an indicator, to me, that we (the church) tend to remain in our comfort zones and let others do the dirty work. If we are talking to the police and to the man selling the mowers and to our neighbors, we are letting the Holy Spirit use us as tools to spread the gospel, to bring about a sense of community. If this is happening in a neighborhood, neighbors should be getting to know one another and looking out for one another.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/20/2008 12:59:57 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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It happened outside where I work. The man, in himself, doesn't look scary -- in fact, perhaps he looks gentle to me. But the fact is that I think he is stealing the lawn equipment. My reasons: when he gets his money, he heads up to a grocery store where some of the worst hang out, which is on record as having a visit from the police daily for crimes committed there, where I blew a tire some months ago and had a little trouble with the homeless over it, and he takes whatever money is handed to him without even counting it, as a business person would.
I was suspicious on Friday. When I saw him do the same things on Tuesday, I called the police. I called them again yesterday when I saw him at it again. Then I started feeling guilty. What if, what if . . . .
So I asked here.
Unfortunately, the situation of my desk is such that my back is to the window whenever I am on the computer, so I only see the man if I happen to turn the other direction and look out. Today, however, I turned the sound up on my monitor, opened a window, and I specifically look outside once in awhile.
Last night (Wednesday), I was here alone until after dark, and had to leave. I set the alarm, locked up the building, and walked out. There he was, in different clothes than those he had worn consistantly since Friday. A man was yelling to him about buying something for $500, the man yelled something back, and I just tried to sneek to my car. He saw me and said "Hello." I responded to him, drove away, then came back to try to follow him. He stopped and was talking to someone while leaning under the hood of their car, where he stayed. I went home.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/20/2008 1:15:10 PM
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Lapidoth
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We are to be two-fold.
"Meek" as doves,
But, also,
"Wise" as serpents.
Calling the police is the correct procedure.
The guilt comes from a lot of religious background.
If the police questioned him, they either had nothing to
hold him on, or he satisfactorily answered their questions.
Just continue to pray for wisdom and then "use it."
There is no "one answer covers all" situations.
Common sense is also a gift from God.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/22/2008 8:12:38 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3414
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From: a mother who let me live
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I don't feel terrifically smart, Lap. I do a lot of second-guessing, usually with good reason. My heart breaks for these people, but another part of me hates it when they break the law by theft, then I think -- what if I was homeless, cold, without food: what would I do. Am I all that righteous? Am I right to judge?
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/23/2008 2:27:09 AM
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zamdad
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So, what would you do, Abiyah?
I've been thinkking about this as the economy turns sour. A couple of newspaper articles come to mind. Recently, one of the local papers did a feature on how a small county (one I used to work for) was getting a full time judge as opposed to spltting two judges between two counties. One of the judges commented on the increased crime rate and said that there is an increase in recent minths because of the economy and how some people are resoring to crime. Having worked for that county, I know that the increased workload has been around longer than the economic crises.
Another article in one of the national papers spoke about how many will turn to criminal activity as a result of the downturned economy.
Having worked in the criminal justice system for the past 16 years, I am concvinced that crime is the result of wrong moral choices. Do you think (do any of you think) that with the economy growing worse, you would compromise your moral vaues to gain material things?
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Homeless Persons: What would you do? - 11/24/2008 1:15:39 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3414
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From: a mother who let me live
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Zam, when I was a young child, I had everything I needed and wanted, but I was a thief, stealing candy bars at the corner market. When I was a preteen and teen, we were poorer than dirt, and I continued stealing -- things I needed and things I thought I needed. When the L-rd made a change in my life, since I had done these things in three states I no longer lived in, I wrote letters and sent money, paying back those from whom I had stolen, and I faced those within my city, told them what I had done, and paid them back, sometimes to the tune of hundreds of dollars, but I did it by the help and grace of G-d.
Since I did that, I have not truly suffered from lack of anything I needed, even to this day. Sure, I felt the pinch when I went to Costco to buy toilet paper last week, and it cost twice what I paid for it before, but I have not suffered poverty lately. What would I do if I did? Do I base what I think I would do on the fact that I was a thief until the L-rd changed me, or do I trust the L-rd that His change is sure and permanent?
Do I believe what the old church taught -- that my salvation is in a precarious position and it is up to me to keep it by doing the right things, or do I trust what my present belief tells me -- that my salvation is sure and that He will keep me from falling into the old self?
I would think that He would keep me. I believe He will keep me. Others have gone through difficulties and have kept the Faith; is He less strong for me? I believe He is able to keep me.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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