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One John 2 - 3/6/2010 3:37:17 PM
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Doctrinor
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Anyone looked into First John chap 2 of the wording or words used as to any or Greek to English meanings in a more deep way ??
=like 'father'[small letter]
=young men or man--
and 'love' in this context..
'abiding'
'light'
'world'
and any others that help pick up the message in this chapter--
I prefer a deeper more then just shallow look into it..Seems like tghe choice of darkness is simply just a choosing or evaluationg whether one is true and abiding and walking and looking to Jesus too--
All great meanings I can see..
Feel free to dig into this as we can make a very good thread as fulfilling to grasp the big picture in this scripture [I know it seems so simple but wanted to get each verse if possible because you get spiritual nourishment as well from]..Share anything that helps here. WE can edify each other as well.
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RE: One John 2 - 3/6/2010 4:10:58 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2032
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after my nap i'll log back on. i'd like this, if'n ya dont mind.
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: One John 2 - 3/7/2010 1:08:37 AM
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gralan
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First letter of John, chapter two, verse 1
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous (NASB)
my little darling children (teknia mou)
- - I take this to mean the author is addressing the folks as he has a parental role in oversight with them.
- - He as well could be addressing new believers in the group he is writing to; even in an all inclusive way.
I've had a person who fulfilled for a while this kind of role in my spiritual walk, as an older relative especially within the family of God. He could still call me "Son, " as he liked, as affirmation of loving relationship, of position of authority, and of the generational gap. I'd still hear it with endearment, even at 50. I will only hear him again on the other side.
I'm reminded that Jesus said unless we come as a little child; and one such way to be that way is to be one who is without guile and possesses simple trust as a presupposition through which one views the world. May we all as God the Father's children possess that inate trust.
I really like the emphasis here of God being our Father. Not in a sense as in "all humans are God's children" but rather we are adopted as God the Father's children because of faith in Jesus Christ's finished work and the indwelling of Christ's Holy Spirit within us.
John is obviously writing to provide clear teaching; such is evidenced from the beginning of the letter.
He states that his intent is to encourage them to not sin. There is no license for allowable sin in the things he is communicating to them. He is wanting to make that position very clear. May we read especially this verse with that in mind. This is no instruction from the Apostolic leadership of the first century church as if to state it is allowable to commit sin.
The very next words in John's statement here are : And (kai) if anyone sin Advocate we have with the Father, Jesus Christ righteous.
I'm writing that you not sin, and if anyone does sin we have an Advocate before God the Father in the person of Jesus Christ who alone is righteous.
That is the only way I can see the statement here being read.
Idea = do not sin.
If (ean) any certain one does sin, Jesus will be our Advocate before the Father to get it taken care of. Jesus can do this because He is righteous.
(ean) if, whenever, but if; this is a conditional term in the Greek.
- - the term sin (amarte) here is "to miss the mark". That reminds me of the idea Paul uses of "whatever you do, do between you and God for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin." (Romans) That standard includes failure to complete entirely in one's action; as in I'm aiming for the bullseye and I miss the mark just a little to the right.
Jesus had confounded the Pharisees and others by restating sin in similar terms: as in "You have heard it said from old that... but I say to you..."
As John R Stott wrote in his look at the radical nature of the Kingdom of God in Christ's Sermon on the Mount, the standard wasn't for example do not commit adultery but rather if you lust you've just missed the mark on that commandment.
I'm intrigued by the idea of Jesus continuing role as an Advocate on our behalf. Some seem to think as if that role was finished with the propitiation which will be discussed next in the text.
Is not Jesus being referred to as our Advocate in case we sin, even when being children of God? It gets harder to reject this idea as we progress from the conditional terms in this verse to what John writes next under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
I will stop here. I'm not sure if'n this kind of thing is what y'all are looking for. I'm hoping for conversation rather than this being a monologue where I'm "scripting our understanding according to the Anderson Paraphrase..." haha 
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: One John 2 - 3/7/2010 4:04:28 AM
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Doctrinor
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NIce words put thus far my friend-gralan- and is thought provoking too..
Feel free to put more you can think of or find if u like.
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RE: One John 2 - 3/28/2010 9:00:08 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2032
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and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. (NASB)
kai autos hilasmos estin peri tôn amartiôn çmôn ou peri tôn çmeterôn de monon alla kai peri olou tou kosmou (Apostolic, Greek transliterated)
Also himself propitiation is for the sins of us not for the of ours and only but also for whole the world. (literal word for word)
Propitiation, "hilasmos", the atoning sacrifice for Sin. The main idea here for the sacrifice is sufficient to atone for all sins, at all times, in all places. Where there is sin, the hilasmos is sufficient.
The only other place in the New Testament where Greek "propitiation" occurs, is 1Jo 4:10; it answers in the Septuagint to Hebrew, "caphar," to effect an atonement or reconciliation with God; and in Eze 44:29, to the sin offering. In Ro 3:25, Greek, it is "propitiatory," that is, the mercy seat, or lid of the ark whereon God, represented by the Shekinah glory above it, met His people, represented by the high priest who sprinkled the blood of the sacrifice on it. -- Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
So in these first two verses we wind up with John explaining to us that Jesus is (1) our High Priest in the only true presence of God and as such offered atoning sacrifice for all Sin as our Advocate (2) Jesus himself is that atoning sacrifice; the perfect human life lived in perfect obedience to the will of God the Father by the power of the Holy Spirit. He who owed no debt of death for sin, was reckoned sin on our behalf upon the curse of the stake of the cross so that we might in Him become righteousness to His glory and honor.
These verses sum up a basic focus upon Christ for our righteousness before God. Notice that us other humans really have no role to play in this structure of atonement. To be at peace with God one must be covered by the Advocate and Sacrifice of the real person who is Jesus. He has done the one and only sacrifice and advocates for us while seated at the right hand of the Father until all things are put under His feet.
This deserves some time to just renew our thoughts and dwell on this so as to bring praise to Him with whom we have to do. May God bless the meditations of our heart. The meditation of His word. Thanks be to God.
< Message edited by gralan -- 3/28/2010 9:11:26 PM >
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RE: One John 2 - 4/24/2010 4:59:19 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2032
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
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1JN2.3 -- nasb
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
ginôskomen we know egnôkamen we have known autou Him
This is self-referenced, for individuals as well as corporate knowledge. These are evident in our walk as believers and as the Bride of Christ together -- we know we have known Him if we love as He loved us.
Ref:
JN13:34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another."
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JN14.15 "If you love Me (Jesus), you will keep My commandments."
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JN15.10 "If you keep My(Jesus) commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love."
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JN15.12 "My commandment is this: Love each other as I have loved you."
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John 15:17 "This I command you, that you love one another."
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Note: It doesn't say we are to like one another. That will be as it will be, in this time and place, but we are called to love one another.
How did Jesus love us ("...as I have loved you.")?
By loving us when we were yet sinners, by being someone who absorbs the punishment we deserve, by forgiving us, by pointing us to love God and be reconciled to God, by being our Advocate, by providing for what we lack and need.
These are some of the ways we love as Jesus loved us. This can only truly come into fruition if Jesus actually lives in us as we live in Him. He is the vine, from which flows life into us so we bear fruit of Him.
These three verses here are pretty plain, leading in small steps towards obedience. The truthes here are not just solitary, but rather makes sense in combination with each other. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. We acknowledge the parts, but assimilate them together as the Holy Spirit revealed.
It isn't a "gotta do it", it is a "when you are in Him, this is what happens when you submit". IMO. Comments and smart remarks welcomed.
Please, I enjoy going through this passage. I am not intending this to be an instruction block from me unto others.
Frankman and all y'alls - please join in as you are able (we are all able btw) IMO May we all seek to know Him who is love; God is love.
Peace to the household of faith in God, to the Jew first and then the Gentile. We are all by faith Abraham's descendents, and by faith we are reckoned righteous. To our Holy, Holy, Holy Lord, God of power and might, who fills heaven and earth with His glory - amen.
one source I enjoy is at: http://www.bible.cc/
< Message edited by gralan -- 4/24/2010 5:06:44 PM >
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RE: One John 2 - 4/26/2010 4:22:58 PM
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frankman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
1JN2.3 -- nasb
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
If we have "come to know Him" we will practise what 1 John 1:7 tells us to do. 1 John 1:7 tells us to "walk in the light." We will do this by obeying His commandments. Now as children we obey our parents commandments because we have to. If we don`t we may have a date with the wood shed. However as we mature we soon realize our parents rules that we had to obey were there for our good, so in order to enjoy life more we soon learn we need to obey in order to be happy and safe. However when we reach maturity we learn to obey not because we have to, or need to, but because we want to. Our love for Jesus and His commands also needs to mature to a point in our Christian walk that we want to obey Him not because we have to or need to, but because we want to. Our love for God will be manifested to others by how faithfully we live our lifes for Jesus because we want to.
_____________________________
"Is not My word like fire,` declares the LORD, `and like a hammer that breaks a rock in peaces?" Jeremiah 23:29
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RE: One John 2 - 4/27/2010 12:57:50 AM
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gralan
Posts: 2032
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I'm glad to read Frankman's que to pay attention to the context from what John had previous written. These are not little bits of truth strung together like a string of pearls, but rather a carefully crafted revelation of God's truth specifically about a certain topic and how that topic is to be realized in the lives of us, God's new creations.
The desire to please God, Father - Son - Holy Spirit, is something that stems from our new creation. Our old nature definately does not have such as a goal, and is incapable of itself to even do what is right.
We do not prove that we know Him by keeping His commandments, we know that we have come to know Him. To know God is eternal life, Jesus said.
We have confidence our knowledge of Him is true if we find ourselves being conformed in His image and as we discover how we live out obedience to His commandments.
The light of God indeed has shown quite clearly, and I'm glad that was brought up. John's exhortation for us to walk in the light is spot on target. It seems though that walking in the light is a rather vague description of obedience doesn't it? I mean, surely what John is writing under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit is actually meaningful peculiarly to the text after the exhortation.
So, at this point we are anticipating what the light of God has illuminated for us in that light within which we are to walk. Grasping the concepts as they are built precept upon precept, line upon line.
Since this isn't a quiz, John is getting ready to tell us quite plainly what that is. In fact, Jesus Himself was quite plain and blunt about it when He spoke. IMO, of course, as always.
I look forward to reading about what others glean of verses 4-7. 
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RE: One John 2 - 4/30/2010 10:38:53 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
If we have "come to know Him" we will practise what 1 John 1:7 tells us to do. 1 John 1:7 tells us to "walk in the light." We will do this by obeying His commandments. I will agree with the first part, that we will keep his commandments and will walk in the light. As to what "walking in the light" means, I do not agree with his definition that it is keeping the commandments. Walking in the light is PART of keeping the commandments.
John elsewhere uses light to say what is open and displayed before others as opposed to darkness which hides and conceals.
Joh 3:19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed.
Joh 3:21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”
To walk in the light means that you are hiding nothing from your fellow believers. There is no 'right to privacy.'
_____________________________
Avatar is my son Caleb and Leah on their wedding 12/20/09
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Winner of 2010 "best in "He Says"
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RE: One John 2 - 4/30/2010 6:34:28 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2032
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Well daveW,
Thanks for bringing that up. Walking in the light does indeed have something to do with our transparency where our lives are lived with nothing to hide or be ashamed about.
It also has to do with our ability to see in this dark world, does it not? To walk in the light means that just as He is in the light and is the light, we are in the light if we are in Him.
Maybe?
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RE: One John 2 - 5/3/2010 6:34:33 AM
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DaveW
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Agreed. And I think the 2 ideas are linked.
_____________________________
Avatar is my son Caleb and Leah on their wedding 12/20/09
=======================
Winner of 2010 "best in "He Says"
=======================
Our CD is available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: One John 2 - 5/31/2010 11:38:20 PM
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Doctrinor
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So far too and good OP study I do see from all you posters and thanks a bunch--
Do keep posting if you can or have anything to add to it..And PM me if feel to do that as it is great to discuss more the general topic and topics.
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RE: One John 2 - 6/22/2010 2:01:55 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2032
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
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One John 2 - - verse four.
(4) The one who says(*a), "I have come to know Him,"(*b) and does not keep His commandments(*c), is a liar(*d), and in him the Truth is not.(*e)"
*a - Titus 1:10 For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcised...
*b - 1JN2.29 If you know that He is Righteous, you know that everyone also who practice righteousness in born of Him.
*c - MATT5-7 Therefore be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect.
ROM13.10 Love does no wrong.
John 8:51 If anyone keeps my Word he shall never see death.
*d - John 8:44f You are of your father the Devil.
*e - Titus 1:15f ...by their deeds they deny Him...
The person who is a new creation in Christ is in love with God and neighbor. The one who does not do justive, love mercy and walk humbly with God (Micah 6:8) is a liar should they claim to be new creations filled with the Spirit of God and in right relationship.
Jesus tells us to be perfect even as God is perfect, so that we give to the righteous and the unrighteous alike during our lives here. This means we love our enemies, provide more than ased for or deserved, we are desirous that all would be reconciled to God. The child of God carries the family resemblance, having been born of the Holy Spirit to new life.
If you are not in the process of being conformed into the image of the Word of God become flesh, then you are not someone who is walking in "The Way". Jesus is indeed present in the world right now in His Body, at least the Church militant - for the Church triumphant is already home.
We are those who are of "The Way", those who walk in the light of God's revelation in Jesus with authentic, transparent lives.
< Message edited by gralan -- 6/22/2010 4:28:41 PM >
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And we all have enemies. The world, false teachers and God haters are our enemies. Our love for the world may also become our worst enemy that may cause us to lose our desire to love God and to do God`s will for our life. 
