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What to do? - 3/10/2010 8:32:09 PM
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Hislittleone
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My almost 14 year old son had been asking to go for a bike ride all day but had to wait till school (we homeschool) and chores were done. It occurred to me that he might be so anxious to ride not so much for the ride but because he might be wanting to go see this friend of his that he'd gone to see last week.
The story behind that is last week he'd asked to ride his bike around the lake but actually left the lake and went further from our house than is normally allowed in order to visit this friend. We were upset when we found out and talked to him about it (don't do it again without asking....we need to know where you are at....etc.). Anyway, that's why I was wondering if he was wanting to go off and visit her. So I asked him if that was his intent. He snapped out, "What the heck?!" (Except he said another word that isn't a cuss word but it's crude, we don't like him using it, and would get bleeped out of my post.)
What would you do if your son spoke this way to you?
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: What to do? - 3/10/2010 8:48:29 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
What would you do if your son spoke this way to you?
More importantly, what did you do?
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~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: What to do? - 3/10/2010 8:54:08 PM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
The story behind that is last week he'd asked to ride his bike around the lake but actually left the lake and went further from our house than is normally allowed in order to visit this friend. We were upset when we found out and talked to him about it (don't do it again without asking....we need to know where you are at....etc.).
If one of my two had done that, they'd have been grounded right away, seeing as it was a well-understood, well-established rule that had been broken.
quote:
Anyway, that's why I was wondering if he was wanting to go off and visit her. So I asked him if that was his intent. He snapped out, "What the heck?!" (Except he said another word that isn't a cuss word but it's crude, we don't like him using it, and would get bleeped out of my post.)
What would you do if your son spoke this way to you?
Got him to clean the toilets every day for a week, as a reminder to "clean up" his own act.
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"Manda – I can often skip posting 'cause she's got it covered!", sen10tious, July 2010
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RE: What to do? - 3/10/2010 9:08:01 PM
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Hislittleone
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LOL, I realized after submitting it that I hadn't included what I'd done.
This isn't usually how I react when he is disrespectful but today was already a really bad day so....... I teared up and asked him why he would speak to me in such a disrespectful way. He felt I was accusing him of doing something bad or assuming that he was planning to do to do something wrong. I told him that it's not ok to be disrespectful to a parent for any reason, ever. He seems to think that if he feels justified then it's ok to disrespect us. It's something we've struggled with for a long time. I've tried grounding and talking to him but nothing seems to really work.
He's a really good kid and this is probably the biggest problem we have with him (well, this and getting him to do his schoolwork  ). He has a good heart, is sensitive, funny, talented, smart, great big bro, etc. But this attitude is not ok.
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: What to do? - 3/10/2010 9:25:24 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
LOL, I realized after submitting it that I hadn't included what I'd done.
This isn't usually how I react when he is disrespectful but today was already a really bad day so....... I teared up and asked him why he would speak to me in such a disrespectful way. He felt I was accusing him of doing something bad or assuming that he was planning to do to do something wrong. I told him that it's not ok to be disrespectful to a parent for any reason, ever. He seems to think that if he feels justified then it's ok to disrespect us. It's something we've struggled with for a long time. I've tried grounding and talking to him but nothing seems to really work.
He's a really good kid and this is probably the biggest problem we have with him (well, this and getting him to do his schoolwork ). He has a good heart, is sensitive, funny, talented, smart, great big bro, etc. But this attitude is not ok.
Don't feel bad, I once burst out bawling when my eldest spoke disrespectfully to me. It can be so disheartening. We definitely punished our kids for parental disrespect. In your son's case, maybe taking away his biking privilege for a week or some sort of restriction from something he loves to do. He needs to learn that it is never acceptable to talk to you that way.
Blessings!
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: What to do? - 3/10/2010 10:02:48 PM
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Hislittleone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
LOL, I realized after submitting it that I hadn't included what I'd done.
This isn't usually how I react when he is disrespectful but today was already a really bad day so....... I teared up and asked him why he would speak to me in such a disrespectful way. He felt I was accusing him of doing something bad or assuming that he was planning to do to do something wrong. I told him that it's not ok to be disrespectful to a parent for any reason, ever. He seems to think that if he feels justified then it's ok to disrespect us. It's something we've struggled with for a long time. I've tried grounding and talking to him but nothing seems to really work.
He's a really good kid and this is probably the biggest problem we have with him (well, this and getting him to do his schoolwork ). He has a good heart, is sensitive, funny, talented, smart, great big bro, etc. But this attitude is not ok.
Don't feel bad, I once burst out bawling when my eldest spoke disrespectfully to me. It can be so disheartening. We definitely punished our kids for parental disrespect. In your son's case, maybe taking away his biking privilege for a week or some sort of restriction from something he loves to do. He needs to learn that it is never acceptable to talk to you that way.
Blessings!
Thanks Kat. It's nice to know I'm not the only mother who's done that.  We've tried taking away the things he enjoys most but he still doesn't seem to care and it didn't seem to make a difference.
Sarah, that's a good idea but we recently started homeschooling and it's been very difficult for him to not be around his peers every day. I've considered grounding him from certain events but I'm afraid that would "exasperate" him in a way that we shouldn't if you kwim. He doesn't have an extremely active social life so I'm a bit leery of taking what he does have away.
I just don't know if we went wrong somewhere or if this is normal for boys his age. Either way it's wrong and needs to be fixed.
I don't know if this makes sense but I feel like this is a heart issue and we're just not getting through to his.
Keep the ideas coming.... I appreciate the feedback and will be discussing this thread with my husband when he gets home this evening.
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: What to do? - 3/11/2010 10:12:14 AM
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bolt.
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It seems to me that you (unintentionally) communicated something very harsh to your son when you asked him about his intent to bike ride. What he heard you say was, "I'm your mother, and I know that under your nice-kid act you are just somebody who conspires to break rules and waits on opportunities to do evil." You are lucky he didn't burst out crying.
What his out burst meant was, "What on earth have I done to make you assume things like that about me? How hard am I going to have to work before you will believe, at least, that I am trying to do the right thing most of the time? Is there ever going to be a time where I can rely on my parents to believe the best in me?"
So, yes, it's a heart issue. And, yes, there is a problem between you and his heart.
This is a really good time to teach him how to deal with it when people hurt him by appearing to attack his character. Teach him to say what he means without descending to crass words or an overly angry tone (slightly heated or firm tone would be OK). Teach him how to figure out if he has been offended in the Biblical sense (sinned against), and what to do about that to pursue reconciliation (name the sin and use Matt 18). (Slander is a named sin in the Bible, and you might want to welcome his Biblical approach to you if he believes your words constituted a slander of his character.)
It's also a really good time for you to think about whether you communicated the opinion that you actually feel (that he is likely to intentionally take opportunities to choose evil, and to plan for them). If so, the problem is not that you said it, but that you believe it. If this is your actual belief, then that is the root of the problem between you and his heart.
If you do not already, it's time to start trying to convince yourself to believe the best of him: that you consider him a person of good intent and heart that makes mistakes -- usually due to impulsiveness. If you already believe that, or if you are going to start today, you will still need to do some counter-communicating against what he thinks you were saying with your comment about the bike ride. Find opportunities to say, regularly, that you respect the core of his character.
I just realized that all this could be mis-read as namby-pamby -- Don't punish the poor boy -- sort of advice. I don't mean don't have consequences for his disrespectful choice this time. Please go through with a plan of discipline over his words and tone as previous posters have mentioned. That's very important. But once the dust settles a bit, then do the pro-active teaching and restoration response that I am outlining here.
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RE: What to do? - 3/11/2010 1:25:40 PM
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GraceyGirl
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I'm with bolt on this one - I can easily see where what he heard was, "I know you're planning on doing something you aren't supposed to be doing" and he (key word here) reacted to what he thought he heard. What you want to do is incorporate a communication that gets responses, NOT reactions.
Now - based on his reaction however, I'd agree it was disrespectful and while it might have seemed justified to him at the time, the bottom line is you do not use disrespectful words or actions with your parents.
I have a 12 year old who is giving me loads of gray hair at the moment, and what we do with him when he chooses to use his mouth to be disrespectful, is we give him a "dirty" task. The methodology being - if you want to talk ugly to me, you can do ugly chores.
Toilets, behind the toilet, scooping the litter box extra, poo patrol after the dog, cleaning out under the sinks. . .etc.
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God called. He'd like His church back.
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RE: What to do? - 3/11/2010 1:53:05 PM
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stampinlady
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Did you ask him why he rode past his boundaries? I always like to hear the "why" so as to see where I'm gonna approach it from. Did he really know what the boundaries were or has he done this before and no one said anything? I would defanately correct him for his mouth and disobedience, but I don't know if I'd ground him for a first time offense. I'm kind of a softy and know that kids will be kids, but I don't think this should go ignored.
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Deb
There is no "cosmic dog whislte. It's gonna be loud folks !!!
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RE: What to do? - 3/11/2010 4:07:11 PM
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Hislittleone
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bolt., I hadn't thought of it from your perspective. You definitely have given me a lot to consider. Thank you.
Graceygirl, I think I too have gotten quite a few more grey hairs over the last several years. LOL
He apparently thought I was automatically assuming the worst about him. Funny thing is that when I was recounting the incident to my husband, he asked the same question about whether ds was really intending to ride over and see this friend. And he asked that before I even got to the part about how I'd asked the question of ds and then he disrespected me. So maybe we do assume the worst of him sometimes. He's also said that I seem to expect him to be perfect or something to that effect. And I think he's told me that I tend to make him feel like nothing he does is good enough.
I've tried to work on that by complimenting/praising him more but maybe I haven't been successful. If I do have the attitude of expecting him to mess up and that somehow comes across to him, I can see how it would be hurtful or exasperating.
Manda and Graceygirl, I'm going to take your advice about doing the "dirty" chores as a punishment for having a "dirty" attitude. It's something he hasn't had to do before and I think it might work. He gets grossed out just washing the dishes so this should be interesting. LOL
Deb, I don't think we asked him why he rode past his boundaries but I think we've made it very clear he is supposed to stay in the lake area when riding his bike. I'll double check to make sure on that one though. Neither the disrespect nor the going out of bounds is a new offense. The disrespect happens on a regular basis. He seems to think that if we do something he finds to be wrong or offensive then it's ok to be extremely disrespectful.
As far as leaving boundaries we've put in place, he climbed out his bedroom window last year and ran away without telling anyone. Not sure if I posted about this or not but it freaked us out. Fortunately we found him just an hour or two later. We stayed calm and talked it out. Turns out he wanted more freedom so we've been trying to relax our boundaries a bit (we tend to be overprotective which IMO is a good thing but we've gotta let him grow up just a little I guess.) He didn't really get punished for that one.
Because of that incident and because he went off to see this girl without asking permission to go outside his boundaries then I guess we do tend to assume that he might do it again.
Thanks a lot everyone, you've given me much to think about. 
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: What to do? - 3/11/2010 4:29:25 PM
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LMKH
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My son would not be going. Plus, I would call the parents of the girl and make sure they know your son is not allowed to go and to call you if he shows up.
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RE: What to do? - 3/11/2010 4:34:04 PM
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Hislittleone
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The thing is that we decided to allow him to go after having talked to him about it. But he has to ask permission first and has to call us when he gets there. The main problem was that he left the boundaries we'd set up without asking permission. It isn't that we aren't willing to expand his boundaries.
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: What to do? - 3/15/2010 9:44:43 AM
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FunBetty
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
He apparently thought I was automatically assuming the worst about him. Funny thing is that when I was recounting the incident to my husband, he asked the same question about whether ds was really intending to ride over and see this friend. And he asked that before I even got to the part about how I'd asked the question of ds and then he disrespected me. So maybe we do assume the worst of him sometimes. He's also said that I seem to expect him to be perfect or something to that effect. And I think he's told me that I tend to make him feel like nothing he does is good enough.
The attitude issue aside, one of the most important lessons I learned in high school was trust. I did something (not big, I don't even remember what it was), and my dad sat me down. He told me that he loves me, but since I _______ (whatever I did), then he has lost some trust. He then said that it takes a long time to rebuild that trust, which is why it would effect some of his decisions in the future about what I could do and not do. It really stuck with me.
I think for your son, he misbehaved and therefore lost your trust. There hasn't been time to rebuild that trust, which is why you and your DH thought what you did. It's normal, imo.
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RE: What to do? - 3/15/2010 11:56:45 AM
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cynthia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FunBetty
The attitude issue aside, one of the most important lessons I learned in high school was trust. I did something (not big, I don't even remember what it was), and my dad sat me down. He told me that he loves me, but since I _______ (whatever I did), then he has lost some trust. He then said that it takes a long time to rebuild that trust, which is why it would effect some of his decisions in the future about what I could do and not do. It really stuck with me.
I think for your son, he misbehaved and therefore lost your trust. There hasn't been time to rebuild that trust, which is why you and your DH thought what you did. It's normal, imo.
Yes. I have had to do this with two of my children at different times. When I explained it to them, it helped a lot. Trust is something one can lose through recklessness. What he did was reckless. He is not entitled to your trust and once he has damaged it, the ball is in his court to earn it back. Getting angry and defensive when you don't trust him doesn't make sense, because he is the one who removed the trust and you are only responding appropriately.
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Often times the battle is the worst right before a breakthrough. In order to get us to give up, the devil wants us to think we are losing, when in fact we need to fight on to victory.
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RE: What to do? - 3/15/2010 4:37:20 PM
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Hislittleone
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I've given him the talk about trust when I caught him in a lie so he's gotten the talk, just not about the bike issue. Maybe I should explain it to him that way.
I think that my husband and I might be projecting our teenage behavior onto him just a little bit. Maybe. And that leads us to expect him to mess up.
But OTOH he has messed up in the past and has lost some of our trust.
So I guess my husband and I need to make sure we don't make him feel like we don't think he ever does anything right (because he does..he's really a great kid) but he also needs to understand that when you do things that are disobedient or reckless (as Cynthia put it) you lose your parents trust. And that affects how we interact with him in the future.
Deb, we don't usually use chores as punishment either but I think this is going to make more of an impact. At least I hope it will! Nothing else is working so far so we might as well give it a shot...
Ds is learning how to clean the bathroom and that's a good thing because it's a skill he'll need as an adult. And if he gets a little grossed out in the process then maybe it'll make it a more memorable experience.  LOL I'll probably have him keep cleaning the tub and sink as part of his chores but not the toilet. We'll save that one for special occasions like gross disrespect of one's parents.
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: What to do? - 4/3/2010 3:01:03 PM
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Hey_mom
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Oh, I feel as if I am re-reading my own story when I read your posts in this thread! Right down to our son sneaking out his bedroom window in the middle of the night (only ours was returned to us by the local constables after picking him up about 12:30 a.m.).
One issue which is huge, is that your son is shifting the argument away from what he is doing wrong, by turning it back on you "You don't trust me!" Well of course you don't trust him because he has just broken that trust! This is what our son does ALL the time, he refuses to see his own responsibility even when we acknowledge our part in situations.
I have to stop now but I will come back and talk to you some more, you could read my post "Please help, 15-year-old son..."
p.s. One really tough chore is to clean the toilet bowl with a toothbrush. (not his own, however tempting that might be.)
< Message edited by Hey_mom -- 4/3/2010 3:08:04 PM >
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"For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11
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RE: What to do? - 4/4/2010 12:20:31 AM
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WasLostAmFound
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hey_mom
p.s. One really tough chore is to clean the toilet bowl with a toothbrush. (not his own, however tempting that might be.)
That was a favorite of mine when my boys were teenagers! A nasty attitude got a nasty chore...cleaning their OWN bathroom (which was beyond gross on a regular basis) with a toothbrush...and we have those little tiles on the floor! They only did it once or twice...
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Formerly known as NotDoneYet...but...God had other plans!!!! My new blog... http://retirednavywife.wordpress.com/
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RE: What to do? - 4/6/2010 1:21:36 AM
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justaparent
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I would sit down and explain that this is not appropriate and offer a better version and talk about respect and disrespect with your elders.
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RE: What to do? - 4/8/2010 8:06:54 AM
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W.O.F.
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I think the dirty chores are great since they are not a part of his regular routine ( I assume he does have chores though?)
One thing I have done with my 2 teens and my now pre-teen when disrespectful talk has come up is ask them and tell them I want an honest answer "Have I ever talked that way to you?" if they say "no.." I ask them "Then what makes it okay for you to talk to me that way?" if they say "yes"....My first response is to apologize to them and explain how I was wrong and then explain that we both need to work on being respectful to each other with our words..even when angry.
I have found that this, coupled with whatever consequence fits, works well...because it lets them know that I understand how easy it is to mess up...and that I too am obligated to be respectful as well.
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Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: What to do? - 4/9/2010 2:14:12 PM
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Hislittleone
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Don't think I could handle having him clean the toilet with a toothbrush. Ewww!  If his attitude got a lot worse I might have him do it though. Definitely will keep it in mind.
LOL, Hey_Mom, @ the comment about knowing they are under the influence of a substance.  Dealing with a teen is so much more comlicated than dealing with a little one! It's new territory for us and is kinda scary at times...
We did talk with him about respecting his parents and elders. We've had many conversations about it. The dirty chores seem to have more of an effect than all that talking.
W.O.F., he does have regular chores but none of it is really "dirty" stuff. That's an interesting way to handle disrespect. I always try to apologize when I lose my patience with him. But I think there's a difference between the way he should speak to me and the way I should speak to him.
Me getting exasperated after I've told him to do something for the 5th time in a row is different than him saying something in a sarcastic tone but he doesn't seem to see it that way. In his mind if I even open my mouth to ask a question or give a direction and it comes across the wrong way or just bugs him then it's ok (in his mind) to be disrespectful.
I guess what I'm saying is it's ok for me to use a certain tone of voice or firmness that sounds like disrespect when coming from a child. Does that make sense? Not sure if I've explained myself very clearly.
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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