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digging up the past - 3/8/2010 4:51:40 AM
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yooda
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i need some advice. i have recently gotten engaged to a great girl. she is loving, faithful, honest, caring. both of us are christian. more specifically, my relationship with God was up and down since i became a christian in 2002, but has been the best it's ever been recently because i chose to run away from sin and make a continual choice every day to do so (although i still sin). she is in a similar boat. we have been together for about alogether 1.5 months now. i can't say we had a Godly approach to this relationship early on, but we have not slept together and, 2 weeks ago, we made a commitment to each other and to God to continue to do so, because we really want God's blessing and we want to please Him. yesterday, we decided not to even think about sleeping with each other or any sort of sexual stuff.
both of us are not virgins (i never really asked her but i know she's had boyfriends before and she recently told me she never had a christian boyfriend until i showed up). she alluded to how hurt she would be if we had sex and our relationship didn't work out. she told me about how hurt she was with her last bf of 2 years. i could only guess that she had a sexual relationship with him given the hurt she felt from him and how we fooled around relatively early into our relationship. she keeps giving herself away, that i have no doubt that she's had more than one partner based on all the things she told me.
please don't think that i am judging her but, the closer i get to her, the more i think about her and her past bf/previous sexual partners, and the more i it bothers me. i have no right to judge her because of all the things i did as well. i expressed to her few days ago that i wished we had met each other a long time ago, that we would have been each other's first love, implying that it would have been better if we were virgins, that no other person would have touched each other before we met. not very realistic, am i.
recently, when she mentioned her previous bfs, i told her that, from now on, we should look forward and not mention our past. but the more i think about it, the more it bothers me. i know that God has forgiven us for our sins, that he loves us both. i prayed for a wife, and i prayed for her to be my wife, and i know she is a gift from God to me. but, because of these feelings, i have been praying for clarity, asking God to point out if i did anything wrong, to be more like Jesus, to be able to look forward and not backward, especially given i committed the same sins as she did. i'm praying that these feelings go away.
i need some advice:
1. Do I need to talk to my girlfriend about this? I know she would be crushed if I start asking about her past sexual history.
2. Do these feelings go away?
3. Am I praying the right way? Do I need to be asking something else?
4. Why does it seem like men seemed more sensitive and bothered by these issues than women, whether it'd be christian or secular people?
please help
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RE: digging up the past - 3/8/2010 8:54:34 AM
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bolt.
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Give yourself some time to find grace for her and settle your spirit in God. If it is still bothering you in 6 months, you might let her know that the topic is a struggle for you, and ask her for perhaps some reassuring words that might help you.
Have you or she been baptized as believers? If not, you might consider that sacrament as a death and drowning of you old life under 'the world', joining Christ in the death which ends sin -- and a fresh (pure) new birth into the kingdom of God. Faith doesn't change your life... life starts with faith on the day you enter that new right life with a Lord.
That's practical theology because you might view yours and your gf's lives as beginning new, not continuing from the past.
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RE: digging up the past - 3/8/2010 9:45:37 AM
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yooda
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i agree with you. it is going to take time and God to settle the discomfort/pain i feel about the whole thing. i wish i could just press control-alt-delete and these horrible feelings would be gone. in some ways, i'm thankful that this is occuring because only God can take this away, making me completely dependent on Him. at the same time, i recognize that this is a consequence of the sins that both girlfriend and i committed. i wish i had a time machine.
i was baptized as a teenager. it really didn't mean anything as i never really accepted Christ into my life until 2002. you bring up a good point. i need to be baptized again.
thanks bolt
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RE: digging up the past - 3/8/2010 9:50:32 AM
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hnt
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quote:
i need some advice:
1. Do I need to talk to my girlfriend about this? I know she would be crushed if I start asking about her past sexual history.
2. Do these feelings go away?
3. Am I praying the right way? Do I need to be asking something else?
4. Why does it seem like men seemed more sensitive and bothered by these issues than women, whether it'd be christian or secular people?
Maybe concentrate and pray for answers as to why you feel this is so important. It could be hurt that both of you didn't wait, and you may wish to think about the fact that you may also have to share with her. I think most could understand the regret, but don't allow that regret to run your relationship. Don't you feel God would wish you to move past this? Would knowing be some asset to your relationship, or do you both have enough information to just move forward?
I'm not sure anyone can tell you if you are praying right, or truly if you should be asking something else. If you feel you are missing something ask God to reveal that to you. Ask him for forgiveness due to both of your past actions, and know that he will forgive you if you both ask with the right spirit.
Try to concentrate on the here and now. In the past you were both different people, and the committed Christians that you are and want to be today. I know its not just men that think about this, and it could be a pride issue. I should have been her first type of thing. Its regret speaking, but that regret is something you can move past. Its choice. It could be a test God has placed before you to show you how to let things go after forgiveness has been granted. In your future life goodness knows there will be more important things to deal with, and believe me when I say this regret if handled properly will be near the bottom of your list!  You wish to marry WHO she is today, and WHO you are today!
Try to do some soul searching as to why this is driving you in this fashion, and you may find that the devil himself placed it there to drive you apart. He sees a good thing for God's kingdom, and as you know he likes to tear that to pieces. Don't allow him to make you believe you have a permanent stumbling block to your relationship moving forward. Know if your relationship is indeed God's will for your life that he will reveal to you how to best handle it. This could be part of your consequence for you not waiting as well. It could be something else. Ask God for those answers, and listen - he will reveal that to you.
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RE: digging up the past - 3/8/2010 10:45:25 AM
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buckifn
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Are the two of you going to attend pre-marital counseling? I highly recommend it. Most of the questions you asked need to be addressed before marriage.
No, it isn't bad for you to ask about her sexual past...and her to ask about yours. Both of you need to know because of the issue of STD's. It would be unwise not to ask.
Why do you think she would be crushed if you asked questions?
Asking BEFORE marriage is a lot better than asking afterwards. You could save both of you a lot of heartache. If you have problems before marriage they are only magnified after.
However, you need to decide just how much you want to know. Knowing intimate details will prob. serve no useful purpose and could add to your worries.
If the two of you aren't comfortable with such communication I would suggest counseling with your Pastor.
Whatever you do, do not ignore your concerns thinking they will go away.
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RE: digging up the past - 3/8/2010 11:36:42 AM
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bolt.
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They've been dating for one and a half months... 45 days. Perhaps buckfin's advice is a bit early.
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RE: digging up the past - 3/8/2010 12:24:07 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
i have recently gotten engaged to a great girl. she is loving, faithful, honest, caring. both of us are christian. more specifically, my relationship with God was up and down since i became a christian in 2002, but has been the best it's ever been recently because i chose to run away from sin and make a continual choice every day to do so (although i still sin). she is in a similar boat. we have been together for about alogether 1.5 months now.
You've only been together 1 1/2 months and you're already engaged?
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RE: digging up the past - 3/8/2010 12:43:34 PM
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yooda
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sorry, i meant i went out with her for 1.5 years.
yes, i do plan to seek marriage counseling when i get back. i'm currently in iraq right now with the army. (given the elections went well, i hoping we get back by august, thank God).
i think i need to find out exactly how much i want to know and, on the flip side, how much i want to tell her. of course, if she wants to know everything, i'll have to tell her everything. i'm not sure if that's so healthy. also, is it relevant if God has forgiven us. don't know. maybe, maybe not.
hnt, you made a good point. this could be the work of satan trying to drive us apart. it could be, as i said above, a consequence of our sins. it could also be me being neurotic, jealous and unforgiving. either way, i need God to help me with this as i have a hard time switching my feelings on and off.
after reading some of these responses, i prayed for clarity, for guidance, asking that, if this is not meant to be, then let us part our ways. but if this is something that was planned by Him, that He works through me, gets rid of these intrusive thoughts, that i will let the past be the past given He has forgiven both of us already. i do feel much better and i feel God is with me right now.
i'm so thankful for the wise advice here and God's grace.
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RE: digging up the past - 3/8/2010 12:55:54 PM
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bolt.
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It is critical that you not get carried away by your emotional faculties while you are deployed in a combat zone. You need to wait until you have lived for a while in the ordinary world that does not involve your fight-or-flight reflex being on full time, before you make any kind of decision that involves trusting yourself or others.
I hope for the best for you, and I think you know that it is not right for you to accept your own re-purified status and not hers. Your feeling will follow your brain eventually. You need to know if her past is going to affect your life together... are there STD's, has she experienced discomfort or trauma, has she ever conceived. You do not need to know who, where or how many times.
The best context for this conversation is in counselling -- but don't mix it up. Complete your re-entry adjustments first, and get counsel for that to make it go better and be easier on you and those around you. That's the responsible thing to do.
Also be careful about the black-and-white categories of 'meant to be' and 'planned by God' -- it is good to seek His face in every situation, but there are many ways to be within the will of God. The will of God is all about faithful surrender and a person's heart/will being right with Him. He doesn't just have a track laid out for us that we are in line with it or not.
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RE: digging up the past - 3/8/2010 1:49:16 PM
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yooda
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bolt and kat,
thanks for your concern and advice. i'm in the medical field. therefore, i don't go out of the base all that much. it's actually boring here usually, which is good thing for medical personel. every once in a while there is a scary event. but i have come to realize that, whatever happens, God is always with me, whether something happens to me or not. it's very comforting that the Creator of everything is with me and cares about me.
bolt, i'm trying to accept her completely. i definitely don't think she any worse or better than i am. it's a feeling/emotion i have, following no real logic, full of bias and hypocrisy. but, as i said, i need God to change me as i feel powerless against this.
i agree that i will need to ask her about her medical history. just FYI, i don't want anyone here to get the idea that she was promiscuous or anything like that. from a secular standard, she probably wasn't very sexually active. i believed her when she said she never cheated on anyone. again, just in case anyone got that idea. btw, i get what you're saying in the last paragraph.
kat, i'm not sure if insecurity is the right word right now, although i did have concerns before about her mind possibly wandering to other guys. i know it's tough for her with her man being away for such an extensive time. plus lot of our relationship was long distance before deploying. but we had a big talk, set some ground rules, and, as a result, i completely trust her. we're both alike in that we have no tolerance for any sort of shady behavior whether it's flirting with the opposite sex to frank sexual or emotional cheating. the whole thing feels more like i'm on a highway driving toward a destination and i'm seeing a road block. the closer i get, the more obvious and bigger it becomes. although, today, after praying and talking to you folks, that roadblock seems much smaller now.
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RE: digging up the past - 3/8/2010 2:08:23 PM
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buckifn
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God Bless you yooda...our prayers are with you. I think your best bet is concentrate on your job there and when you get back seek a wise counselor for the two of you.
Do both of you attend the same church when you are home?
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RE: digging up the past - 3/8/2010 11:43:58 PM
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jaimestarcross
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Those feelings are buyers remorse... that`s what I call those emotions... wishing that the girl`s past experience wasn`t true but lo` and behold that`s not the case at all. Both of you are in the same boat and I do hope both of you have repented of those past indiscretions and are living according to the Lord`s standards.
I don`t believe in giving out all the dirty details about what you/she have done with previous love interests... it's important to know that both of you are free from disease, committed to a godly lifestyle and are forgiven people who going to faithful serve the Lord as individuals and hopefully one day as man and wife.
The topic might not come up too often but women are bothered by men who have had a "harem" of previous lovers in their past... it bothered me to a point and it definitely affected the choice I made when I was dating the man I eventually married.
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RE: digging up the past - 3/9/2010 12:58:47 PM
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yooda
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We'll be in different states given my career. I will have 1 month off when I get back. We don't go to the same church. I will definitely get a good pastor for marriage counseling.
jaimestarcross, I agree. When it comes down to it, I don't even want to hear all the details. I don't think neither of us are considered really promsicous, kinda prudish from a worldly point of view. Do you think it's appropriate to ask about previous pregnancy(s). I know she does not have any children but, whenever the topic of abortion comes up, she gets uncomfortable. It negatively affects future pregnancies. I don't want to ask her because I don't want to hurt her but I feel I need to know.
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RE: digging up the past - 3/9/2010 1:12:02 PM
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Elena1030
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yooda
Do you think it's appropriate to ask about previous pregnancy(s)? I know she does not have any children, but whenever the topic of abortion comes up, she gets uncomfortable. It negatively affects future pregnancies. I don't want to ask her because I don't want to hurt her, but I feel I need to know.
Wow... that's such a tough thing.
I may be being too concerned about this part, but if she has had an abortion and she's not told you about it in 1.5 years of dating, I'd be concerned about (1) [on her behalf] where she is in the healing process and (2) the fact that she has waited so long to tell you. I don't know if it's unusual for someone to wait that long to disclose such a significant fact of her past. I can imagine that it's very, very difficult for women who have had abortions to discuss that fact with a suitor. (In a best-case scenario, the woman would be the one to tell the man she's dating seriously or engaged to about significant pieces of her past [no need for all the "gory" details of past situations]. But talking about one's past can be so painful.)
But her discomfort about abortion may arise from some other quarter. (She may have had miscarriages. She may just have some strong feelings about abortion. Maybe someone close to her had one or multiples.)
You won't know till you ask. Other CW posters probably can advise you better on how to approach that conversation with gentleness and sensitivity.
Definitely pray that God would give you a clear signal of when to proceed with either bringing up the matter or inquiring about it further (if she brings it up) and that He would give you the words to say as well as the tone to convey your genuine love and care for her.... since you know that this is not only about your need to know but also about nurturing her emotional health and well-being (which is part of "husbanding").
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RE: digging up the past - 3/10/2010 1:24:56 PM
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jaimestarcross
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Yooda:
When you mentioned the part about how she reacted to abortion...
For her to expose that part of herself (if it has happened in the past) she would have to feel very comfortable/secure with you and feel you won't call off the engagement if this type of thing has happened in her past. If she's not talking to you about it... then work on the issue of trust and sacrificial love and acceptance.
If you are going to discuss abortion - then you need to make sure she knows that regardless of what she has done you aren't going to stop loving her or call off the engagement... you have to be very sincere about that. If you even have the least inkling feeling that her having an abortion would cause you to re-think marrying her then you have a lot of soul searching to be doing before you bring up the subject of abortion again... much less marrying her.
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RE: digging up the past - 3/10/2010 1:45:21 PM
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buckifn
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I would strongly advice you not to even mention the subject of abortion until you both are in the presence of a well trained counselor. It sounds like neither of you are prepared to deal with what may be revealed.
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RE: digging up the past - 3/12/2010 6:39:15 AM
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yooda
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I brought up the idea about undergoing marriage counseling before we get married. Initially she was under the impression that this entails a pastor giving advice, not really a discussion nor an effort to expose possible causes of friction after getting married. I explained to her the marriage counseling I'm more familiar with, where pretty much, the counselor has a deep discussion between 3 people on pretty much everything, including likes and dislikes between us, etc. She did not like the idea of a third party getting involved, of her disclosing personal information to this person. She seemed deeply concerned about the whole thing and said she will do her research but will most likely not agree to do this sort of counseling. I also reiterated what married couples frequently tell me, that issues before marriage are amplyfied 10x after marriage.
I'm very concerned right now. I feel like she does not want to come clean, that she's hidding something. I know I have things that I don't want to disclose to her but, I was planning to give her the choice full disclosure during the counseling session. I feel like she will run away from me if I bring up the abortion topic. I actually had a bad dream about that. I'm not sure what to do except pray.
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RE: digging up the past - 3/12/2010 8:00:51 AM
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buckifn
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hi yooda..blessings to you today. I get the feeling it may not be a good thing to pursue a marriage with this young lady. If she is that uncomfortable talking with you about things there is a reason for it. Communication is one of the most vital aspects of a successful marriage.
If you ever read any books about relationships try to include some by the author Gary Smalley. He offers great insight on many topics.
There is no way I would enter a marriage with a woman I feel is holding back important information. It's not an "incident" from the past that is the big deal it's the lack of trust, communication, and unwillingness to be open.
Pray and tread very slowly. Fear of talking to a 3rd party that is trained to help in situations like this is def. a red flag Does she know many pastor's will not marry a couple unless they attend pre-marital counseling?
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RE: digging up the past - 3/12/2010 8:52:43 AM
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bolt.
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I hope you can see your 'fight or flight' reflex coming through loud and clear in your typing. Re-read it and you will see. You are not in combat but you are in a war zone, and you are not yourself.
This is not the time to be making decisions about your personal life. Your situation with your girl is complicated because people are complicated. You need to deal with it well and wisely once you are home. Stop with the long distance high-stress guessing and pressuring. It's not healthy, and it's the worst choice you can make for your relationship right now. Nothing needs to be settled or figured out right now, so stop poking the issue with sharp sticks.
Many people are intimidated by the idea of couples' counselling and the 'third party' -- especially if there are private issues. NO good counsellor is going to pressure either of you to have a deeper or more revealing discussion than she (or you) are ready for. Most of them are completely ready to be doing the thing where they just give advice, unless somebody opens up and chooses conversation. Often they will say things like, "If either of you have a sexual past, that's going to be important that the two of you discuss that. Should I let you know what you might discuss and why?" Then they will go on with some general advice as to why things like trauma, conception and STD's are important. If the couple jumps in, then it gets personal. If they don't, it doesn't -- you just hear the counsel.
They will also say things like, "If you are currently sexually active, there are things to be thought through about that." -- and -- "If either of you were abused as children, that will effect your marriage." -- and -- "There are particular things about military marriage that add stress." These are topic openers, invitations to discuss. Good counselors can deal with the desire for privacy that people might have about keeping their personal issues between themselves.
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RE: digging up the past - 3/12/2010 10:38:29 AM
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buckifn
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quote:
Good counselors can deal with the desire for privacy that people might have about keeping their personal issues between themselves.
bolt I am really surprised at your response. The part about not resolving this while he is in combat duty is absolutely true, but the part about the quote above is shocking. I have never met a counselor in private or religious sectors that would not tell a couple until you can talk about this openly and honestly the healing process cannot happen.
No, they do not force an issue, but they make it clear the root of the problem has to be dealt with. Remember counseling has been suggested as a way to get this girl to open up because she will not disclose anything with him now.
Self disclosure is one of the most important aspects of preparing oneself for a lifetime relationship with one's spouse.
Until you can be honest with yourself how on earth can you be honest with your partner?
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RE: digging up the past - 3/12/2010 11:41:35 AM
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Lulah
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I have had abortions and married without telling my husband about them, they were really hard for me. I think is important to share these things before marriage. I was so worried that my husband wouldn't love me if he knew about them.
Lulah
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RE: digging up the past - 3/12/2010 7:01:49 PM
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bolt.
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quote:
I have never met a counselor in private or religious sectors that would not tell a couple until you can talk about this openly and honestly the healing process cannot happen.
No, they do not force an issue, but they make it clear the root of the problem has to be dealt with. Remember counseling has been suggested as a way to get this girl to open up because she will not disclose anything with him now.
Self disclosure is one of the most important aspects of preparing oneself for a lifetime relationship with one's spouse.
Until you can be honest with yourself how on earth can you be honest with your partner?
First, I don't think the average person would open up about anything even mildly personal during a long-distance conversation with a soldier in Iraq, unless they really had to.
Second, we have no idea whether there is anything this woman has to 'open up' about, of there is any healing that needs to happen, if she is keeping something from him at all, or if she is just sensitive to personal topics, or if our OP is getting carried away by extrapolation.
Third, I said that, "Good counselors can deal with the desire for privacy that people might have about keeping their personal issues between themselves." That does not mean that good counselors affirm one of the people in their desire to keep secrets from the other. It just means that he or she might encourage them to talk it out between them rather than with him/her present as a 3rd party. That might well involve, as you said, 'making it clear the root of the problem has to be dealt with' -- while providing a variety of ways that a couple might find out if there is a 'problem' in this area, and deal with it between themselves.
Openness, honesty and self disclosure are important between potential spouses. Doing it in front of a professional is not. Most professionals know that.
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RE: digging up the past - 3/13/2010 4:28:45 PM
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buckifn
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I guess the op hasn't made it clear whether or not he tried to talk to her about this stuff before he was deployed. I sort of got the impression he had tried talking to her face to face and she shuts down, which is why I recommeded the help of a counselor.
I don't think most of us would disagree it would be very wrong to marry someone and not tell them if you had prior abortion/s. It could affect a woman's ability to produce more children and bring additional health concerns.
How long were you engaged before you deployed yooda, and how much of this did you try discussing before the engagement?
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RE: digging up the past - 3/13/2010 10:31:50 PM
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peace77
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There are guidebooks that pastors use for pre-marital counseling that you could purchase and use yourselves.
It might be easier if the 2 of you started with easier subjects that are usually covered in pre-marital counseling and leave the more difficult topics for last.
For example, do you want to have children?
If so, how many?
What kinds of discipline will you use?
Do you have debt? If so, How much?
Do you tend to spend or save?
If the answers to the easier questions are in conflict, that could be a deal breaker.
peace,
AM
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