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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 1/30/2010 11:57:03 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ariella...
Knock, knock.
I'd say who's there, but your avatar is showing.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have erred and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 2/6/2010 9:24:55 PM
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JohnD70X7
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Is one thread all Messianics get?
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 2/7/2010 6:36:31 PM
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narnia
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quote:
Is one thread all Messianics get?
Pretty much.
Welcome JohnD70X7!
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Domestic Diva, according to our Forums Mother!
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 2/7/2010 6:46:04 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3773
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From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnD70X7
Is one thread all Messianics get?
This thread was created for a more safe environment
for Messianics to fellowship without everything turning
into "I'm not under the law" and the like and winding up
in the all things "LAW" abyss.
In the other threads it's near impossible to share some
of the insights because of this. So, we are fortunate and
blessed to have our own little getaway. lol.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 2/8/2010 3:21:27 AM
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Bluethread
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Be careful about complaining. Before 6/4/2008, there was no place to discuss things without being told that doesn't apply anymore.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have erred and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 2/8/2010 9:43:34 AM
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JohnD70X7
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Shalom aleichem, mishpocha.
I am in the early stages of writing a book / blog / whatever about a case for New Testament Judaism... based solely on scripture. For this is what I believe God intended "Christianity" to be in the first place... first for the Jew then for the Gentile. We serve an all powerful God who could ram rod his will through this realm / reality, but chooses the way of patience to spare all those who would lose the opportunity for salvation if he were to go the battering ram route.
I think of HaShem as the Great Orchestrator of all things past, present, future AND all the variables given the limited sovereignty he has granted mankind in order that he might make a choice and his love for God be truly love and not a motor reflex like breathing. This is where the "must needs be" category is filled not only in Gentile Church history but also in Judaism. Matthew 13 for example reads like a State of the Union Address for Israel. Not "the Church" as so many teach. The leaven in the dough is as evil as the tares in the wheat field... and can be traced back as far as the formation of the Sanhedrin origin (Exodus 18 wherein Moshe did not as much as consult HaShem before taking his pagan priest father-in-law's advice).
The monarchy and the temple (if we are honest with the scriptures) were also concessions of Adonoi (must needs be)... culminating together to produce a corrupt Jewish leadership that rejected the Holy One (Moshiakh Nagiyd) and banned Jewish consideration of him at the threat of the loss of Jewishness (a thing that sounds so ridiculous to me... but is apparently effective enough to have created the prevalent school of thought to be able to deny most Jews their Messiah and to pass this evil doctrine on to the generations over two millennia)...
Enter the Gentile leadership over the Church... heavy persecution prevented counsel and cannon from being considered until most if not all Jewish leaders were gone. Emperor Constantine legalized the burgeoning Church because it had the cohesiveness his crumbling empire lacked. He and his mother took on the faith as a pet project and what came of it was a form of replacement theology that was never intended by God.
In the name of riding grace of legalism... this new vehicle rid the faith of everything Jewish like a second wife would any reminder of a first wife... throwing the baby out with the bath water... not realizing that only the temporary atonement portion of the Law of Moses was fulfilled. All else still stands... to point the way to Messiah, to convict the world of sin who reject the Messiah... to make each new generation of the world aware in the first place they need salvation...
Nature and theology abhors a vacuum. And in the place of God ordained tenets in Law paganism and tradition (another word for paganism) filled the void. This is how "Christianity" became so foreign and unrecognizable to the Jewish mind... in some cases only blessed by God despite all else because it held on to core truth regarding the Messiah himself.
One tactic I discovered in perpetuating this rift was divorcing the New Testament from the Old Testament... a practice held in more Churches than most I fear realize. Church of Christ (Campbellites) do it doctrinally and unabashedly. But I discovered one day in my studies that during the New Testament times, the Old Testament was the only Bible they had, and reference to the scriptures were to the Tanakh and the LXX (Septuagint).
It was in further study that I learned how to witness the Jewish Messiah to Jewish people using just the Tanakh... in effect giving them back their Messiah...
I also discovered apparently much to the dismay of Gentiles who are more antisemitic than they may realize... and to the dismay of Jewish born folks who pride themselves on being the set apart... salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22)... meaning all (physical Jew and those born Gentile) who believe in the Jewish Messiah are grafted in Spirit Jews.
Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Romans 9:6
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Romans 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Philippians 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Galatians 6:13-16
13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Romans 11:16-26
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
This is the final punch of the one-two punch of the Law (Torah) or if you will the precursory Torah and the Final Torah:
Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law (Torah Moshe) was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith (Torah Moshiakh).
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster (Torah Moshe).
Please observe, before this is received as another abolishment argument... it is not... Torah Moshe still stands as the Letter that kills... (2 Corinthians 3:6)... watch the dual law revelation here:
1 Corinthians 9:19-21
19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.
20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
When we realize this and that in scripture "my law" refers to the latter as in Jeremiah 31:33...
Jeremiah 31:33
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put MY LAW in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
which is contrasted with the giving of the Mosaic Law only a verse earlier:
Jeremiah 31:32
32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.
And when Messianics and Christians get onboard with these things we will get back to our Hebraic roots and present a Jewish Gospel to the world like never before (at least not since the Apostles died ending the apostolic age) which set the world up on end. It may effectively shake the beast out of the tree he's been hiding in and usher in the end. But that's ok. It's all in the Book.
The two witnesses of Revelation 11 are essentially Moses and Elijah... not Peter and Paul... not to suggest division but rather harmony... and a return to hebraic roots which testify to Yeshua the Messiah.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 2/9/2010 9:38:35 AM
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JohnD70X7
Posts: 100
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Hullo?
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 2/11/2010 7:30:58 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3773
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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Interesting you writing a book on this subject.
My co-study pal and I are writing study curriculum.
We are on our volume number four at the moment.
(And it happens to have a lot to do with Constantine).
You'll have to forgive the messianics around here.
We flourish for a while and then vacation awhile. LOL.
I've lost my job so can only get online once or twice a
week since I only have internet here at the office. I'm
permitted to use the net in my studies and personal needs
after hours.
With Obama's economy it looks like this company will have to
dissolve itself and hopefully start over. God help us before
Obama devastates the entire country.
I had no health insurance, but had a job so I supplied my own healthcare.
Now I have not job, much less insurance. And looks like I may not have
a company to come back to very long. So, thank you Mr. Muslim President.
Otay, rant over..............LOL.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/11/2010 7:49:27 PM
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Lochem_Eved_lAdonai
Posts: 482
Joined: 12/8/2009
From: many places
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
I am curious about how long each of you have been practicing Messianics, if you don't mind mentioning. I have only been fully practicing since mid-December of 1999, so that makes it just 8.5 years.
_____________________________
I want to thank G-d for my boss. He is so good to me! I work for a Christian church, yet he would attempt to move mountains for me, if necessary, to make sure I have my holy days off. He is so kind and generous! I thank G-d for that kind of boss and for my workplace. Yes, I have Monday off for Shavuot, and he doesn't mind if I come in and work on Sunday, to make sure I get things done.
Was raised a Christian. My family discovered Messianic Judaism when I was 16. I am 31 now. been actively considering myself a completed Jew since My mother told me I was Jewish through her and her mother's side of the family. that was when I was 20. so it makes it 11-15 years since I have been Messianic in Theology and practice.
_____________________________
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 6:4-9
Vaiyikra (Leviticus) 19:18
Beresheet (Genesis) 12:1-3, 15:4-6, 15:18-21, 17:1-27, 25:21-26
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 28
Tehillim (Psalms) 137
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/11/2010 7:59:04 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2719
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lochem_Eved_lAdonai
Was raised a Christian. My family discovered Messianic Judaism when I was 16. I am 31 now. been actively considering myself a completed Jew since My mother told me I was Jewish through her and her mother's side of the family. that was when I was 20. so it makes it 11-15 years since I have been Messianic in Theology and practice.
So, you are a Timothy?
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have erred and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/11/2010 8:03:48 PM
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Lochem_Eved_lAdonai
Posts: 482
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From: many places
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lochem_Eved_lAdonai
Was raised a Christian. My family discovered Messianic Judaism when I was 16. I am 31 now. been actively considering myself a completed Jew since My mother told me I was Jewish through her and her mother's side of the family. that was when I was 20. so it makes it 11-15 years since I have been Messianic in Theology and practice.
So, you are a Timothy?
In some ways and not in others. This is part of the reason why I get so hot when people discount what I say... I was a Christian... through and through. Been in their theological shoes and discovered the fallacy of them.
To be honest... I HATE anyTHING christian. I love the people. I have several friends who are the way I was. But I hate the Theology which I believe blinds them.
_____________________________
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 6:4-9
Vaiyikra (Leviticus) 19:18
Beresheet (Genesis) 12:1-3, 15:4-6, 15:18-21, 17:1-27, 25:21-26
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 28
Tehillim (Psalms) 137
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/11/2010 8:34:07 PM
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JohnD70X7
Posts: 100
Joined: 2/1/2010
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Well...
It's not that I hate the vehicles through which God has been able to save some... Messianic, Christianity, even Protestant and Catholicism despite their interfering traditions... but can that not be said about all of the above?
I WISH people were willing to allow God to be God and so much concession on his part would not have been necessary. IMHO.
_____________________________
Give to those who hold to untruth:
Answers they cannot question,
And questions they cannot answer.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/11/2010 8:56:27 PM
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Lochem_Eved_lAdonai
Posts: 482
Joined: 12/8/2009
From: many places
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnD70X7
Well...
It's not that I hate the vehicles through which God has been able to save some...
I will give you that just as G-d used a donkey and Baalam to bless the People of Israel the Christian nations and Christian people in general were used by Him for centuries.. but I believe that was in spite of their theology... not because of it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnD70X7 Messianic, Christianity, even Protestant and Catholicism despite their interfering traditions... but can that not be said about all of the above?
I'm not saying anyone is perfect. For that matter one could say that good came out of many things that were indisputably not of G-d. But again, "what the Enemy meant for evil G-d turned for the good to those who loved Him and were the called according to His purpose.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnD70X7
I WISH people were willing to allow God to be God and so much concession on his part would not have been necessary. IMHO.
Meaning behind this please? I just am not following you here. What relevance does it have to what we are discussing?
_____________________________
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 6:4-9
Vaiyikra (Leviticus) 19:18
Beresheet (Genesis) 12:1-3, 15:4-6, 15:18-21, 17:1-27, 25:21-26
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 28
Tehillim (Psalms) 137
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/12/2010 4:09:58 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2719
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnD70X7
Well...
It's not that I hate the vehicles through which God has been able to save some... Messianic, Christianity, even Protestant and Catholicism despite their interfering traditions... but can that not be said about all of the above?
I WISH people were willing to allow God to be God and so much concession on his part would not have been necessary. IMHO.
Everyone is free to believe what they wish and no one has to discuss things with me. When someone falls silent, I do not humiliate them, but allow them to maintain their integrety in silence. However, it is my understanding that one is required to discuss the Scripture "when you sit in your house, and when you wlak by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise up".
If I am correct in my beliefs and my view is rejected I follow Adonai's advise to Sh'mu'el. "(I)t is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me . . ." However, if they make it clear that they are avoiding the issues and are indeed rejecting me, then it is of little use in discussing anything until that behavior is corrected, either mine if they are justified in their comments or theirs, if they are just being petty.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have erred and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/12/2010 10:59:53 PM
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JohnD70X7
Posts: 100
Joined: 2/1/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lochem_Eved_lAdonai
Meaning behind this please? I just am not following you here. What relevance does it have to what we are discussing?
If we boil sin down to its basic element... it is the desire (of one who is not God) to be God. It may be contrived and disguised and denied into any number of forms but sin is "my will be done." And this is true with how the scriptures are mishandled, mistranslated, misapplied, causing divisions and rifts among the faith... adding to the word of God with traditions of men and taking away from the word of God for the same sake.
If we allowed God to be God in our lives (collectively and individually) took his word the way HE means it... it would be a lot more unified and a lot easier to defend apologetically.
_____________________________
Give to those who hold to untruth:
Answers they cannot question,
And questions they cannot answer.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/12/2010 11:02:16 PM
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JohnD70X7
Posts: 100
Joined: 2/1/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnD70X7
Well...
It's not that I hate the vehicles through which God has been able to save some... Messianic, Christianity, even Protestant and Catholicism despite their interfering traditions... but can that not be said about all of the above?
I WISH people were willing to allow God to be God and so much concession on his part would not have been necessary. IMHO.
Everyone is free to believe what they wish and no one has to discuss things with me. When someone falls silent, I do not humiliate them, but allow them to maintain their integrety in silence. However, it is my understanding that one is required to discuss the Scripture "when you sit in your house, and when you wlak by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise up".
If I am correct in my beliefs and my view is rejected I follow Adonai's advise to Sh'mu'el. "(I)t is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me . . ." However, if they make it clear that they are avoiding the issues and are indeed rejecting me, then it is of little use in discussing anything until that behavior is corrected, either mine if they are justified in their comments or theirs, if they are just being petty.
And, what was the cry of the people?
_____________________________
Give to those who hold to untruth:
Answers they cannot question,
And questions they cannot answer.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/14/2010 7:06:12 PM
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Lochem_Eved_lAdonai
Posts: 482
Joined: 12/8/2009
From: many places
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnD70X7
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lochem_Eved_lAdonai
Meaning behind this please? I just am not following you here. What relevance does it have to what we are discussing?
If we boil sin down to its basic element... it is the desire (of one who is not God) to be God. It may be contrived and disguised and denied into any number of forms but sin is "my will be done." And this is true with how the scriptures are mishandled, mistranslated, misapplied, causing divisions and rifts among the faith... adding to the word of God with traditions of men and taking away from the word of God for the same sake.
If we allowed God to be God in our lives (collectively and individually) took his word the way HE means it... it would be a lot more unified and a lot easier to defend apologetically.
Then we are quite alike.
Messianic Judaism is about as close as I have found to keeping the entire bible in context.
_____________________________
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 6:4-9
Vaiyikra (Leviticus) 19:18
Beresheet (Genesis) 12:1-3, 15:4-6, 15:18-21, 17:1-27, 25:21-26
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 28
Tehillim (Psalms) 137
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/15/2010 3:15:49 AM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2719
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnD70X7
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnD70X7
Well...
It's not that I hate the vehicles through which God has been able to save some... Messianic, Christianity, even Protestant and Catholicism despite their interfering traditions... but can that not be said about all of the above?
I WISH people were willing to allow God to be God and so much concession on his part would not have been necessary. IMHO.
Everyone is free to believe what they wish and no one has to discuss things with me. When someone falls silent, I do not humiliate them, but allow them to maintain their integrety in silence. However, it is my understanding that one is required to discuss the Scripture "when you sit in your house, and when you wlak by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise up".
If I am correct in my beliefs and my view is rejected I follow Adonai's advise to Sh'mu'el. "(I)t is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me . . ." However, if they make it clear that they are avoiding the issues and are indeed rejecting me, then it is of little use in discussing anything until that behavior is corrected, either mine if they are justified in their comments or theirs, if they are just being petty.
And, what was the cry of the people?
In the case of Sh'mu'el, they were calling for an earthly king, which was not Adonia's way. The principle is that those who reject Adonai's ways are rejecting Him and not me.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have erred and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 2/16/2010 1:44:25 AM
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JohnD70X7
Posts: 100
Joined: 2/1/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnD70X7
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnD70X7
Well...
It's not that I hate the vehicles through which God has been able to save some... Messianic, Christianity, even Protestant and Catholicism despite their interfering traditions... but can that not be said about all of the above?
I WISH people were willing to allow God to be God and so much concession on his part would not have been necessary. IMHO.
Everyone is free to believe what they wish and no one has to discuss things with me. When someone falls silent, I do not humiliate them, but allow them to maintain their integrety in silence. However, it is my understanding that one is required to discuss the Scripture "when you sit in your house, and when you wlak by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise up".
If I am correct in my beliefs and my view is rejected I follow Adonai's advise to Sh'mu'el. "(I)t is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me . . ." However, if they make it clear that they are avoiding the issues and are indeed rejecting me, then it is of little use in discussing anything until that behavior is corrected, either mine if they are justified in their comments or theirs, if they are just being petty.
And, what was the cry of the people?
In the case of Sh'mu'el, they were calling for an earthly king, which was not Adonia's way. The principle is that those who reject Adonai's ways are rejecting Him and not me.
Granted.
But my point was the "these things must needs be" meaning concession on the part of HaShem till judgment day.
_____________________________
Give to those who hold to untruth:
Answers they cannot question,
And questions they cannot answer.
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