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What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/27/2008 6:38:07 PM
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DwB37
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From: Roswell,GA.-[B. in North Carolina]
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Ok,maybe a bit of rhetorical question here that I'm sure has been beaten to death in the past on this forum(s).
Just the mere mention of the name invokes an instant 'red flag' even for those who don't exactly know why it is considered a cult. Almost like the name of Charles Manson even for those who aren't familiar with his specific crimes.
Ok maybe a bad analogy,but I am just curious as to why people see this belief system as so God-awful bad,as if these folkes are heading straight to the "hot place" unless they not only repent but make full amends for all the harm they have caused.
And for those who are a bit slow like myself,I am of course talking about the JEHOVAH's WITNESSES.
Basically,all I know is that they don't believe in the trinity,or at least that Christ is/was God in the flesh,and now united and EQUAL in the Spirit. And they don't believe in wars. Then again who does?
But I guess my main question is what is so evil about not believing Christ and God are one,but rather that they are simply Father and Son? I know it's a false belief but I really don't think it will send you to Hell.
BUT,what may endanger one's soul is being a 'witness' for JEHOVAH instead of for CHRIST,as if God is the one you go through for salvation.
But I've never been "officially" witnessed to by a 'JW' so I am only guessing they would do it this way.
And I would also assume they would at least try to love Jesus as Saviour as much as they would God seeing how they are "almost" united as ONE.
And if one does accept Christ with all their heart and soul,wouldn't this make them "born-again" or regenerated by the Holy Spirit?
Perhaps these are things only a "JW" could or would answer correctly,which I wouldn't mind at all. But any scripture references to prove either opposing view is also welcome,which goes without saying.
{By the way,my best argument is Philippians-2:9-11,not to mention praying in the name of JESUS CHRIST only.}
Thanks-
DB
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/27/2008 6:41:46 PM
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gaylel1
Posts: 1137
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From: Southern California, the land of Fruit and nuts...
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They are a cult and twists scripture, plain and simple..
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/27/2008 7:02:13 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 3003
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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good people with doctrine that will send them to hell
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/27/2008 7:03:42 PM
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Ruthie
Posts: 82
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From: Center of the Universe, Canada
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Jehovah's Witnesses Believe that :
The Holy Spirit is an impersonal force, not a Person
That Jesus is Michael the Archangel, a created Being
That Jesus returned "invisibly" in 1914
That there is no immortal soul
That Jesus did not ascend bodily into heaven
That there is no Hell
That the Wicked will be destroyed at the Judgement and not sent to Hell
That everyone who is not a JW will perish
That the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society is the God's representative on earth.
That Salvation is achieved by accepting Witness beliefs, being baptized, and following the rules of the group.
That only members of the 144,000 were saved by Christ's sacrificial act
That only members of the 144,000 can partake of the Lord's Supper
All of this adds up to a "Different Gospel". Salvation is not by Faith but by Works. They deny a lot of basic doctrine. Their Jesus is not my Jesus. Sadly, I have grave concerns about them.
My Jesus was God the Son, who died on a cross in an atoning sacrifice for my sins and then rose again bodily, so that I would not die but have life everlasting.
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/27/2008 7:04:36 PM
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Wild-Rose
Posts: 427
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: Upstate NY
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quote:
all I know is that they don't believe in the trinity,or at least that Christ is/was God in the flesh,and now united and EQUAL in the Spirit.
I'm not sure what more you need??? To deny the divinity of Jesus Christ puts them outside and far removed from the Christian religion. They are a cult. They want to APPEAR to be Christian but they are not.
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Wild-Rose
Rejoice that your name is written in heaven. Luke 10:20
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/27/2008 7:53:37 PM
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Wild-Rose
Posts: 427
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: Upstate NY
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quote:
And if one does accept Christ with all their heart and soul,wouldn't this make them "born-again" or regenerated by the Holy Spirit?
Don't you see the contradiction? The JW's do NOT accept who Jesus is. They make him out to be something else altogether.
You cannot accept Jesus Christ with all your heart and soul while at the same time NOT accepting him.
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Wild-Rose
Rejoice that your name is written in heaven. Luke 10:20
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/27/2008 7:55:59 PM
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Wild-Rose
Posts: 427
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: Upstate NY
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quote:
the altered bible
Yes, if you ever find yourself in a conversation with a JW, use your own Bible. Their's is a re-write to suit their own purposes.
_____________________________
Wild-Rose
Rejoice that your name is written in heaven. Luke 10:20
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/27/2008 8:22:51 PM
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earthless
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Some of the nicest and moral people I have ever personally met have either been Jehovah Witnesses and or Mormons.
My partner at work is a JW and he is an excellent human being.
But the teachings of JW are false and heretical in light of Scripture. And the organization is a cult. Their evangelism tactics and drive is amazing.
It is sad that they are willing to do for a lie what countless of self-professing Christians do not do for the truth.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/27/2008 8:31:46 PM
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cybrjewls
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Make a tree Good and it bears Good fruit, no one goes to a tree that bears bad fruit. Condemn not, lest you; likewise; be condemned for who does not have fault in some things. Especially concerning things from above which John The Baptist and Jesus taught Us: that The One From above Is Speaking from Personal experience, whereas the people from below speak on their own to gain honor for themselves as people from earth. No one believes my Testimony, but The One that does has Certified that what God said is True. Love always believes for God Is Love and Love Comes From God. The one that speaks to gain Honor for The One that Sent Him is a person of Truth and there is nothing false in Him. I AM The Truth said Jesus. These are things that are written about Me, yet some refuse to Come to Me to Have Life, instead said Jesus. I AM The Resurrection and The Life. No one can enter The Kingdom of God unless they do My Father's Will said Jesus. The Father's Will is this: I will raise them up before The Judgement at The Last Day. The Work of God is this: to believe in the One that He has sent. Whoever believes on Me will have Life and the Works that they will be allowed to do Through The Son of Man Jesus The Christ will be greater than those done on earth is written. For Christ had taken and Humbled Himself identifying with in His 'ProphetHood' status is written. But The Father Raised Him from the dead; the firstborn among the dead; to become seated at The Right Hand of God with all authority and power given to Him to issue Judgment which is entrusted to The Son of Man as written. Therefore, from Highest Place at The Right Hand of God (for it is written: Christ Is The Power of God and The Right Hand of God), Christ can do much more than those things which are recorded for encouraging and building up The most Holy Faith in The Gospel of Grace.
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
good people with doctrine that will send them to hell
< Message edited by cybrjewls -- 7/27/2008 8:43:12 PM >
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/27/2008 11:06:51 PM
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earthless
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cybrjewls - are you saying that Jehovah Witnesses are Christians?
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/28/2008 3:53:44 PM
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Christ_Logic
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From: Minnesota
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I think this does a pretty good job at explaining it.
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2 John 1:2-3
for the sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever :
Grace, mercy and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/28/2008 4:23:17 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1145
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I hope that no one 'lives' like some of the 'so-called' dried up twigs that label themselves 'christian' these days. There exists no brand of JH that accepts gays in the ministry. Only some of those you say were 'sound' in their doctrinal beliefs have done so.
Earthlies, you wear the dark gown to condemn others. It only ruins those who listen is written. Yet, it is written the stone that the builders reject has become the capstone.
Why, getEquipped@, would you propose to teach others that they can tell where someone is going in the next New Earth? Then, you mishandle the Word of God to make it unfruitful among the people for you say that Works are not by and through the Grace of God? This is heretical teaching and falsehood!
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
cybrjewls - are you saying that Jehovah Witnesses are Christians?
< Message edited by cybrjewls -- 7/28/2008 7:39:21 PM >
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/28/2008 4:55:15 PM
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Sonrise
Posts: 163
Joined: 5/19/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
I hope that no one 'lives' like some of the 'so-called' dried up twigs that label themselves 'christian' these days. There exists no brand of JH that accepts gays in the ministry. Only some of those you say were 'sound' in their doctrinal beliefs have done so.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
cybrjewls - are you saying that Jehovah Witnesses are Christians?
You quoted Earthless and then made no attempt whatsoever to answer his question.
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/28/2008 5:24:59 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6360
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sonrise
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
I hope that no one 'lives' like some of the 'so-called' dried up twigs that label themselves 'christian' these days. There exists no brand of JH that accepts gays in the ministry. Only some of those you say were 'sound' in their doctrinal beliefs have done so.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
cybrjewls - are you saying that Jehovah Witnesses are Christians?
You quoted Earthless and then made no attempt whatsoever to answer his question.
That seems to happen when one takes too much medication (intoxication) in any form or suddenly quits without medical supervision (withdrawal).
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/28/2008 6:04:07 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6342
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
I hope that no one 'lives' like some of the 'so-called' dried up twigs that label themselves 'christian' these days.
What does that have to do with the discussion about Jehovah Witnesses?
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
There exists no brand of JH that accepts gays in the ministry. Only some of those you say were 'sound' in their doctrinal beliefs have done so.
Who have I said are sound in doctrine that has accepted homosexuals as ministers? Please explain.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Earthlies, you wear the dark gown to condemn others. It only ruins those who listen is written. Yet, it is written the stone that the builders reject has become the capstone.
Who or what am I rejecting?
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Why, Equip.org, would you propose to teach others that they can tell where someone is going in the next New Earth? Then, you mishandle the Word of God to make it unfruitful among the people for you say that Works are not by and through the Grace of God? This is heretical teaching and falsehood!
What in the world are you talking about? Are you OK prophetica? Seriously asking, your posts are non-logical and worrisome. What did my posts have to do with equip.org? And where have I said that good works are not a result of the Holy Spirit?
Can you ever just answer a simple question? Let me try again - are you saying that Jehovah Witnesses are Christians?
Do you even know what they teach/believe?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/28/2008 7:41:58 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1145
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Since Works are by The Grace of God and are evident among those counted worthy by Grace through Faith, then why quip with those that bear Good Fruit; as you have stated; rather than accept that the fruit is Good? If someone does well, won't it be accepted is written in The Word of God in Genesis as how God answers Cain ( a murderer of the first Martyr). The Fruit is The Substance of The Faith evident from what was made as written so that one has no excuse for Judging one's neighbor regarding dogma at law. Why concentrate on the speck of dust, and throw out the baby with the bath water; when One Baptism; many forms. Baptised through the sea were the Israelites. Bapised in the sea of Solomon; later were some. Baptised for repentance through water and Spirit as the Gospel of The Kingdom of God was advanced. Baptised with fire at the Judgment are some! Tested with fire is written in Paul regarding our deeds; lest one take their place with the rich man for awhile until The Judgment Day.
What, then, are the dead baptised for as written in Paul? God is The God of The Living, not of the dead; therefore the dead are Baptised in hades and then Gehena.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
I hope that no one 'lives' like some of the 'so-called' dried up twigs that label themselves 'christian' these days.
What does that have to do with the discussion about Jehovah Witnesses?
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
There exists no brand of JH that accepts gays in the ministry. Only some of those you say were 'sound' in their doctrinal beliefs have done so.
Who have I said are sound in doctrine that has accepted homosexuals as ministers? Please explain.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Earthlies, you wear the dark gown to condemn others. It only ruins those who listen is written. Yet, it is written the stone that the builders reject has become the capstone.
Who or what am I rejecting?
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Why, Equip.org, would you propose to teach others that they can tell where someone is going in the next New Earth? Then, you mishandle the Word of God to make it unfruitful among the people for you say that Works are not by and through the Grace of God? This is heretical teaching and falsehood!
What in the world are you talking about? Are you OK prophetica? Seriously asking, your posts are non-logical and worrisome. What did my posts have to do with equip.org? And where have I said that good works are not a result of the Holy Spirit?
Can you ever just answer a simple question? Let me try again - are you saying that Jehovah Witnesses are Christians?
Do you even know what they teach/believe?
< Message edited by cybrjewls -- 7/28/2008 7:51:40 PM >
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/28/2008 7:47:06 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6342
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Since Works are by The Grace of God and are evident among those counted worthy by Grace through Faith, then why quip with those that bear Good Fruit; as you have stated; rather than accept that the fruit is Good? If someone does well, won't it be accepted is written in The Word of God in Genesis as how God answers Cain ( a murderer of the first Martyr).
Someone can be a moral person, a "good" person and bear good fruit - but be dead in their sins - not know Jesus as Lord and Savior.
By your own admission anyone that bears any fruit is a born-again believer. That, my friend, is not true and contrary to Scripture.
Do you even have any clue what Jehovah Witnesses believe/teach? Do you know they do not believe Jesus is God?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/28/2008 8:12:08 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1145
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Those of The Holy Faith are born-again and should make every effort to enter The Kingdom of God is what is written. The Son of Man which Is The Word of God created all things through Him and for Him and by Him. Therefore, those deeds and Works of The Holy God are greater than Good Fruits, alone. For it is written Greater things than these will you do In My Name.
What is it to us if God chooses some to be a Garden in another location?
Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons may understand that The God of Heaven was inside Jesus as He had said; and that They Are One; and that no one knows The Father except The Son and no one knows The Son except The Father and those whom He so chooses to reveal. No One Except Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit Have this special Relationship as ONE; THE ONE. The Father is Greater Than all is written.
Jesus said to Nicodemus this Teaching for he had come by night, without many witnesses to notice it, from the Pharisees to check out what was going on With HIM. Jesus said that this is the way that it is on the earth. Those born-again will 'see' The Kingdom, those who are not will not ,on this earth, see it. If one has eyes opened and is born again as a new creation; what does the world of sin have to do with one if one fights the Good fight? Jesus said to the man dying next to Him: today you will be With Me in Paradise. For the man had asked Him to remember him after the Great and Terrible Signs were given as Jesus neared death (hades). Was this man 'born-again', also? Jesus went to hades and preached to the captive spirits of the people from across all time periods (past, present, and future) and loosed them as the acceptable year of The Lord's Favor as written in The Holy Prophets of God and The Apostles.
So, who are you and I to Judge God's Creations which He has called 'Good' as though they will be condemned without a fair assessment of Scripture regarding the Fruits evident from The Presence of God's Works in someone life? For God knows what He put in a person. It is The Father's Garden and HE will prune it and tend as HE sees fit. If He wants to recreate you and offer you by Grace through Faith on Christ found in Holy Gospel of God, all the more are we a People who can be the Most Benefitted. For we are now of The City New Jerusalem of The Holy Chosen People of God. For it is written: when gentiles do things of the law of Moses, God put directly into them in accordance with what is written in The Prophets. Now there are many cities, but this is the Most Treasured Offering Imaginable for humans. The Holy Apostles were counted worthy of suffering for The Name of Jesus Christ and were overjoyed at the Marvelous Opportunity that they were given. For they are Martyrs and Will Reign with Christ in Jerusalem for one thousand years.
Those of The Kingdom of God, can be the more benefitted in Wondrous and Great Riches of Jesus The Messiah to do The Will on the earth as Jesus said for Us to pray would be the case. For no one can enter The Kingdom of God unless they do the Will of My Father in Heaven is written. If anyone would come after Me they must deny themselves and follow Me being careful to keep the whatsoever I have Commanded You. For it is To The Father's Glory that you bear Much Fruit of The Holy Spirit showing yourselves to be Truly My Disciples as written. For God's Will is Far More Beneficial than anything that we could understand or comprehend.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Since Works are by The Grace of God and are evident among those counted worthy by Grace through Faith, then why quip with those that bear Good Fruit; as you have stated; rather than accept that the fruit is Good? If someone does well, won't it be accepted is written in The Word of God in Genesis as how God answers Cain ( a murderer of the first Martyr).
Someone can be a moral person, a "good" person and bear good fruit - but be dead in their sins - not know Jesus as Lord and Savior.
By your own admission anyone that bears any fruit is a born-again believer. That, my friend, is not true and contrary to Scripture.
Do you even have any clue what Jehovah Witnesses believe/teach? Do you know they do not believe Jesus is God?
< Message edited by cybrjewls -- 7/28/2008 10:21:24 PM >
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/28/2008 8:16:45 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5949
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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Wow... This is beyond surreal... I am at a lost for words and that doesn't happen too much...
John
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/28/2008 9:12:28 PM
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prophet
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Its a 'Judge not' statement.... 
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Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/29/2008 6:58:53 AM
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Wild-Rose
Posts: 427
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: Upstate NY
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quote:
Why concentrate on the speck of dust, and throw out the baby with the bath water;
This is my favorite part. It almost sounds like it could be in the Bible. Maybe it's in the JW Bible.
_____________________________
Wild-Rose
Rejoice that your name is written in heaven. Luke 10:20
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RE: What's so bad about JW's?? - 7/29/2008 7:49:09 AM
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earthless
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So let it be known that cyberjwls, prophetica, etc.. seems to be saying that all religions lead to eternal life.
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