RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?help me
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/12/2008 3:22:29 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
But this is a result of your study and my study of the word. Nothing specific in the word itself that says so in plain language.
Which means it's more about how one feels since all they study in the world will not change the fact that the bible doesn't say babies are automatically saved. And the verses used to make the case are vague and do not speak of salvation... As well the concept is general conflict with the plan of salvation spelled out in the bible...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/12/2008 7:08:12 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 9446
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You know John it is to bad God did not give us all the gift of All knowing like he did you. I would love to be that smart.
As to all the study in the world. You should try it sometime you may even learn a thing or two. Now you are beginning to annoy me boy. So since you are determined to argue with any and every thing I say why don't you use the block feature. I just did.
_____________________________
STRESS = The internal struggle created when the brain trys to over ride the heart's desire to tell off some jerk that really deserves to be told off.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/12/2008 7:25:43 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5953
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
You know John it is to bad God did not give us all the gift of All knowing like he did you. I would love to be that smart.
I know for a fact you think you are right so the above reflects no less upon yourself...
quote:
As to all the study in the world. You should try it sometime you may even learn a thing or two.
I learned that all the study in the world cannot produce what is not there...
quote:
Now you are beginning to annoy me boy. So since you are determined to argue with any and every thing I say why don't you use the block feature. I just did.
I debate with whom I don't agree with... That is a purpose of this forum... I am truly sorry if that offends, yet I reserve the right to respond to whomever.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/15/2008 8:28:08 AM
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Theo-Minor
Posts: 74
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
First of all my friend you are preaching to the choir. I have consistently said babies go to heaven. Either through being innocent and sinless, as I believe they are, or because they are not accountable as of yet.
But let us not confuse the issue by saying the Bible says something it does not say. In my post I said the Bible does not say "Babies go to Heaven" and it does not say "Babies do not go to heaven". You will not find those words anywhere in scripture. Obviously you have read and studied the scriptures and based on that study you have come to the conclusion and belief that babies do go to heaven. I too have study the scriotures. The ones you quoted and many others and have reached the same conclusion as you have.
But this is a result of your study and my study of the word. Nothing specific in the word itself that says so in plain language.
I won't outright argue with that statement. The Bible does not specifically say "babies go to heaven," just like it doesn't outright say that there is a Trinity. Both concepts require piecing things together through circumstantial statements.
I am, however, glad we are in agreement on the issue.
To explain where I'm coming from, as far as the Bible actually saying it ... If Jesus had not yet died at the moment he made the comment, then salvation for mankind in general had not yet been accomplished. Those with sin (which was everyone) "slept" until judgment, and would awaken, some to everlasting life, and others to everlasting torment.
And yet, though all slept, awaiting the saving sacrifice of Jesus Christ, nevertheless the "angels" of the "little ones" were already beholding the face of his Father who is in heaven (angels meaning spirits, just as the apostles thought it was Peter's "angel," or ghost/spirit, when he escaped captivity and knocked to come in).
If God is in heaven, and the little ones were, at that time, beholding his face, then they were in heaven, too ... without the saving sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
It can also be said that if heaven is where they are, then heaven is where they go ... not to Abraham's bosom to await judgment, or to sleep, or any of the other concepts that have become popular over the years. The spirits of little ones constantly behold the face of the Father in heaven.
Any that choose to argue they do not go to heaven, I would simply ask, from where do they behold the face of the Father? From hell? In their dreams while they sleep awaiting judgment?
I personally think that Jesus is quite clear about where little ones go in that passage, as I also think that it is as close to explicit as it gets, short of the direct statement you are speaking of. In other words, though it doesn't say that babies go to heaven, it does say they are in heaven, which to me is just as good. How they got there is easy enough to infer from the other arguments you've made on innocence and accountability.
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/15/2008 10:49:09 AM
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SirWintery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Which means it's more about how one feels since all they study in the world will not change the fact that the bible doesn't say babies are automatically saved. And the verses used to make the case are vague and do not speak of salvation... As well the concept is general conflict with the plan of salvation spelled out in the bible...
Those who have not sinned do not need to be forgiven. A baby has no concept of law to make aware of sin and a need for salvation.
Cart before horse.
It's so easy a ...child... could see it.
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 18:3)
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/15/2008 10:32:46 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5953
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
Those who have not sinned do not need to be forgiven.
Those? Who is without sin? Where does the bible mention those without sin? The verse you quoted doesn't mention those without sin and in fact if you continue you'll see in verse 6 that children mention can sin...
quote:
A baby has no concept of law to make aware of sin and a need for salvation.
Neither does my favorite aunt who is really smart and probably the nicest person on earth, yet she has no concept of the law... It's foolishness to her...
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It's so easy a ...child... could see it.
Yes they can.. They see the fact that you and the rest of the gang have one plan of salvation for one group; the you must choose or else plan, and another for babies, which breaks down to pure election given that God determines our days...
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And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 18:3)
Yes that would become like children... No mention innocent, but in the context of need... Children are in need of everything... That is how one comes to Christ... Nothing to offer and in need of everything...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/16/2008 2:31:16 AM
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Theo-Minor
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What point, exactly, are you arguing for Sovereign? Is it your position that babies die in sin and go to hell lacking the saving grace of Jesus acquired only through belief and confession? Are you arguing in favor of original sin?
Please clarify for my sake. Thanks.
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/16/2008 7:43:02 AM
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SirWintery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The verse you quoted doesn't mention those without sin and in fact if you continue you'll see in verse 6 that children mention can sin...
The verse I quoted was more toward who could understand my post.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Neither does my favorite aunt who is really smart and probably the nicest person on earth, yet she has no concept of the law... It's foolishness to her...
You said it yourself...she "is really smart"...not a baby at all.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Yes they can.. They see the fact that you and the rest of the gang have one plan of salvation for one group; the you must choose or else plan, and another for babies, which breaks down to pure election given that God determines our days...
Cart before horse. There's not a different plan.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Yes that would become like children... No mention innocent, but in the context of need... Children are in need of everything... That is how one comes to Christ... Nothing to offer and in need of everything...
"No mention innocent"? A baby is not guilty of anything.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/16/2008 12:24:37 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
The verse I quoted was more toward who could understand my post.
Yes, those being folks who are emotionally driven on the subject and will cling to anything that even remotely makes them feel better in the scriptures on the subject. You have anything for those of us not driven by emotion?
quote:
You said it yourself...she "is really smart"...not a baby at all.
It is a spiritual matter, not one of intellect...
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Cart before horse. There's not a different plan.
Completely different plan... No need of forgiveness, no need of salvation... Yet there is no mention of such things in the bible...
quote:
"No mention innocent"? A baby is not guilty of anything.
According to people who are emotionally driven on the issue... If all babies are not guilty that would make Joshua guilty...
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 10/16/2008 2:51:23 PM >
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/16/2008 2:47:06 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5953
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Theo-Minor
What point, exactly, are you arguing for Sovereign? Is it your position that babies die in sin and go to hell lacking the saving grace of Jesus acquired only through belief and confession? Are you arguing in favor of original sin?
Please clarify for my sake. Thanks.
That salvation is an act of God for anyone saved regardless of age...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/16/2008 3:32:07 PM
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allisonbrett
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Scripture tells us over, and over and over how God is love, merciful and just. He is slow to anger and quick to forgive. How can this same loving, merciful God condemn the unborn, infants and children to hell and yet be called merciful? This seems to clearly contradict the character of God.
To pick apart scripture and focus on only one or two passages comes acrosss very legalistically and does not take into account the full character of God. I believe it limits who He really is.
I have two sons that now reside with the Lord. They were both stillborn, one after the other and within a year of each other. I have no doubt that they are with Jesus even as I type. The Lord has confirmed to me that they are in His presence many years ago. To believe otherwise leads to a god that is not one I'd follow.
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Allison's World My Blog
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/16/2008 5:14:13 PM
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SirWintery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Yes, those being folks who are emotionally driven on the subject and will cling to anything that even remotely makes them feel better in the scriptures on the subject. You have anything for those of us not driven by emotion?
I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.
(Romans 7:9)ESV
As I have said previously, the law makes us aware of sin. Let me expound that to say that it makes us aware of sin in the things we do. Judgment is for actions. A baby is neither aware of the law nor has committed any sinful actions.
Or do you not know, brothers--for I am speaking to those who know the law--that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives?
(Romans 7:1)ESV
The law is binding on living persons, the law being what God commands us to do or to not do. A baby has no options here, existence is not a sin.
Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
(Romans 14:10-12)ESV
Why would anyone judge or despise a baby? It is going against Scripture to think to pass such a judgment. Think of the account the baby will have to give before God.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/16/2008 5:42:56 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
To pick apart scripture and focus on only one or two passages comes acrosss very legalistically and does not take into account the full character of God. I believe it limits who He really is.
Both sides of the argument could be accused of doing that. For instance, I have repeatedly asked for any Scripture that supports the idea that anyone can come to God without accepting Christ as their savior, and all I got were a couple of obscure passages that I felt were taken grossly out of context.
Just because you disagree with a position doesn't make it unbiblical.
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You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/16/2008 6:36:12 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5953
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.
(Romans 7:9)ESV
Alive in what? The Spirit? Nope... Paul percieved he was alive, yet he wasn't... There is one spiritual birth, not two or more...
quote:
As I have said previously, the law makes us aware of sin. Let me expound that to say that it makes us aware of sin in the things we do. Judgment is for actions. A baby is neither aware of the law nor has committed any sinful actions.
If so, Joshua murdered the babies of Jericho... Can't have it both ways... I
quote:
Why would anyone judge or despise a baby?
It's a matter of discerning the temporal and the eternal...
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It is going against Scripture to think to pass such a judgment.
God did so before they did good or bad... Unlike man He's not subject to emotions. He sees beyond the exterior...
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Think of the account the baby will have to give before God.
No account will suffice... Salvation isn't about being innocent... It's about the shed blood of Christ... Blessed are those who sins are covered.. The idea that one has to become like and child in the context of becoming innocent conflicts with the fact nothing we can do will cause God to grant mercy, He grants mercy according to prerogative not based on man doing something or not...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/16/2008 7:10:58 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: allisonbrett
Scripture tells us over, and over and over how God is love, merciful and just. He is slow to anger and quick to forgive. How can this same loving, merciful God condemn the unborn, infants and children to hell and yet be called merciful? This seems to clearly contradict the character of God.
Jacob and Esau...
quote:
To pick apart scripture and focus on only one or two passages comes acrosss very legalistically and does not take into account the full character of God. I believe it limits who He really is.
From my experience it is those who say ALL babies, children, infants are saved who pick apart scripture and focus on only one or two passages... The full character of God has to account for the treatment of babies and children at Jericho and others places/events as well...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/16/2008 8:58:04 PM
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SirWintery
Posts: 2098
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Jacob and Esau...
First of all, there is no reason to label an opposing view as "emotional" etc.
To the issue, Esau lived and committed sin...he did not die as an infant.
And once again, sinners need salvation, babies have not sinned. I wonder how many times I will type that there is not a different plan of salvation and that judgment is for those who have sinned, not for those who haven't.
But when he heard it, he said, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
(Matthew 9:12)
And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."
(Mark 2:17)
And Jesus answered them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
(Luke 5:31)
Refusal to acknowledge Scripture which contradicts your ideas is _not_ other people picking Scriptures while ignoring others. I should be shocked to see a comprehensive and Scripture-supported effort detailing why babies go to hell...I haven't seen it yet. Have a nice night.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/16/2008 9:15:29 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5953
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
First of all, there is no reason to label an opposing view as "emotional" etc.
It is... One only has to read through the threads on this debate to see the emotions... To deny this isn't an emotional issue is to deny reality... Evidence of those emotions is founded in this and every thread about this topic.
quote:
To the issue, Esau lived and committed sin...he did not die as an infant.
God choose one over the other and made the point that He did so even though they hadn't done good or bad... The choice by God was made while they were in the womb, and not made because of what would happen... The verse(s) makes that clear. Regardless of when Esau died, God choice was made prior... When he died didn't matter..
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And once again, sinners need salvation, babies have not sinned.
Mankind needs salvation... They are either part of mankind or not...
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I wonder how many times I will type that there is not a different plan of salvation and that judgment is for those who have sinned, not for those who haven't.
As many times as you so choose... And each time I will say you are calling for a different plan of salvation...
quote:
But when he heard it, he said, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
(Matthew 9:12)
And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."
(Mark 2:17)
And Jesus answered them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
(Luke 5:31)
Refusal to acknowledge Scripture which contradicts your ideas is _not_ other people picking Scriptures while ignoring others.
Who isn't sick? There are NONE righteous... You claim part of mankind doesn't need Christ and you speak of contradictions?
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I should be shocked to see a comprehensive and Scripture-supported effort detailing why babies go to hell...I haven't seen it yet.
You can't see it...
quote:
Have a nice night.
Ditto... Tell the gang I said, Hi :)
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/17/2008 6:51:13 PM
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Theo-Minor
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I'm not emotional on this issue at all. I have never felt the pain of losing a child, infant, or anything even close, unless you count a puppy once when I was a kid.
The children and women who were slain in the land the Israelites were going in to possess were slain to eradicate an idolatrous people. God did not say the babies or children were guilty, or that they had sinned. He just said to slay them. God didn't want the children of Israel infected with their ways, and as history has shown, disobeying God in his instructions throughout the whole conquering of the promised land ultimately led to the many sins of Israel with strange gods.
My answer to the Jericho scenario would be to simply say that God didn't want those children growing up (with the mothers who were also slain) and trying to bring the old ways back to life, or to seek vengeance. The land belonged to Israel now, by God's promise, and the old ways of the former inhabitants needed to be utterly abolished. You can't do that without wiping out all remnants of the former inhabitants.
If I'm not mistaken, the Bible says something very similar to this understanding of the events, just in different words.
As for Esau ... That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not children go to heaven, or are guiltless in their innocence and lack of understanding. God's choice for Jacob over Esau ultimately ended up killing him when he came in the flesh as Jesus Christ. Jacob's descendants were the ones physically responsible.
It could be speculated that if the Messiah had come from the lineage of Esau, perhaps things would have turned out different. Maybe they would have obeyed God. Maybe Christ would never have been betrayed and killed.
To suggest that the Jacob and Esau issue has anything to do with the salvation of children rather than with God's plan in the great scheme of things seems silly to me.
To each their own, though ...
Mankind needing salvation ... no one needs to be saved until they are lost. No one is a sinner until they commit a sin. Singers sing, drivers drive, sinners sin. You can't be a sinner until you start sinning. Since where there is no law there is no transgression, babies who know only what their senses tell them (like, "I'm hungry") can hardly be called sinners. They don't yet have the law, or any semblance of it. They don't know right or wrong. Without the law, there is no "wrong," and therefore no sin. So babies don't technically need salvation. They haven't yet fallen. Paul's point that all have sinned is a generalization to express a point, not an absolute statement driving at the "fact" that even the unborn infant has sinned. In fact, what you quoted about there being none who are righteous, when many "righteous" people are mentioned throughout the scriptures, illustrates the point beautifully.
Babies receive the grace of God. They go to heaven. As I pointed out in a previous post, Jesus said so. Their angels do constantly behold the face of the Father who is in heaven.
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/17/2008 7:00:19 PM
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Qtman
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Theo-minor I have no emotional ties to the debate either. I have never lost a baby.
That was a good well written post and I agree. However, you should now brace yourself for it to be reposted one line at a time and picked apart. Just a warning.
Like I said before you have obviously come to this belief through study of the word.
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STRESS = The internal struggle created when the brain trys to over ride the heart's desire to tell off some jerk that really deserves to be told off.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/17/2008 7:18:02 PM
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Theo-Minor
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He's welcome to do that if he chooses. I learned a long time ago that few people ever change their point of view on a forum.
Ironically, I made that post for those who are reading this thread, not for him. He's likely to do exactly as you say; make a bunch of invalid points that either ignore the good points I made or use things irrelevant or incontextual to the issues presented in order to ultimately hold being right in higher esteem than being correct.
People just don't want to change, and they never want to be wrong.
So I post to threads where I hope I can make a difference in someone's life, and hopefully my many years in the word can give someone peace on a difficult issue, instead of the despair offered by people like him who tell grieving mothers (whom we may not even be aware of) that their babies aren't going to heaven, and that they might as well embrace that "harsh reality" 'cause "that's what the Bible says."
Though, of course, it doesn't say that at all.
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/17/2008 7:18:18 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5953
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Theo-Minor
My answer to the Jericho scenario would be to simply say that God didn't want those children growing up (with the mothers who were also slain) and trying to bring the old ways back to life, or to seek vengeance.
Their mothers being slain the alleged innocent babies wouldn't grow up in their old ways...
quote:
The land belonged to Israel now, by God's promise, and the old ways of the former inhabitants needed to be utterly abolished. You can't do that without wiping out all remnants of the former inhabitants.
If I'm not mistaken, the Bible says something very similar to this understanding of the events, just in different words.
How could sinless innocent babies by simply being born of whomever bring about old ways of the former inhabitants if the there is no former inhabitants to show them the old ways?
quote:
As for Esau ... That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not children go to heaven, or are guiltless in their innocence and lack of understanding. God's choice for Jacob over Esau ultimately ended up killing him when he came in the flesh as Jesus Christ. Jacob's descendants were the ones physically responsible.
It could be speculated that if the Messiah had come from the lineage of Esau, perhaps things would have turned out different. Maybe they would have obeyed God. Maybe Christ would never have been betrayed and killed.
Not really since God made a point of picking Jacob and Christ was heading to cross long before this took place... Such speculation defies the fact God had a plan and He did and is bringing it to past...
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To suggest that the Jacob and Esau issue has anything to do with the salvation of children rather than with God's plan in the great scheme of things seems silly to me.
To each their own, though ...
Not when you consider that God's choice(judgment) wasn't based on anything they did...Good or bad...
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Mankind needing salvation ... no one needs to be saved until they are lost. No one is a sinner until they commit a sin. Singers sing, drivers drive, sinners sin. You can't be a sinner until you start sinning. Since where there is no law there is no transgression, babies who know only what their senses tell them (like, "I'm hungry") can hardly be called sinners. They don't yet have the law, or any semblance of it. They don't know right or wrong. Without the law, there is no "wrong," and therefore no sin. So babies don't technically need salvation. They haven't yet fallen. Paul's point that all have sinned is a generalization to express a point, not an absolute statement driving at the "fact" that even the unborn infant has sinned. In fact, what you quoted about there being none who are righteous, when many "righteous" people are mentioned throughout the scriptures, illustrates the point beautifully.
Not when you consider that their "righteous" isn't theirs, but God's...
Nothing says man is born alive in the Spirit... One is either in the flesh or the Spirit...
There is nothing to suggest that man is born alive in the Spirit from the womb, dies upon first sin and and later is born (again) of the Spirit...
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Babies receive the grace of God. They go to heaven. As I pointed out in a previous post, Jesus said so.
Jesus never said that...
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John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/17/2008 7:24:24 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5953
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
Theo-minor I have no emotional ties to the debate either. I have never lost a baby.
One doesn't have to have lost a child to have this be an emotional topic...
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That was a good well written post and I agree. However, you should now brace yourself for it to be reposted one line at a time and picked apart. Just a warning.
Strange to warn someone that what the posted will be responded to and on a forum no less... Like warning someone that water will be wet at the drinking fountain...
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Like I said before you have obviously come to this belief through study of the word.
Since there is no clear scripture on the matter and the plan of salvation for babies conflicts with the common man must choose or else plan found and supported by yourself the conclusion that all babies are saved is one mostly rooted in what people want not what they find...
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 10/17/2008 7:36:56 PM >
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/17/2008 7:29:23 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5953
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: Theo-Minor
He's welcome to do that if he chooses. I learned a long time ago that few people ever change their point of view on a forum.
Like yourself?
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Ironically, I made that post for those who are reading this thread, not for him. He's likely to do exactly as you say; make a bunch of invalid points that either ignore the good points I made or use things irrelevant or incontextual to the issues presented in order to ultimately hold being right in higher esteem than being correct.
People just don't want to change, and they never want to be wrong.
More points that can be directed right back to yourself... Of course that is the problem with making such comments, they can be turn against yourself...
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So I post to threads where I hope I can make a difference in someone's life, and hopefully my many years in the word can give someone peace on a difficult issue, instead of the despair offered by people like him who tell grieving mothers (whom we may not even be aware of) that their babies aren't going to heaven, and that they might as well embrace that "harsh reality" 'cause "that's what the Bible says."
Though, of course, it doesn't say that at all.
Actually I would tell them it's in God's hand, since that is a far more honest answer than to say they are in heaven...
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 10/17/2008 7:37:31 PM >
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: a baby or infant died ,does he will save or not ?... - 10/17/2008 7:29:31 PM
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Theo-Minor
Posts: 74
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline
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ROFL ... that was fast!
Response is forthcoming ...
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Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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