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RE: Can we choose to believe? - 10/24/2008 12:39:03 AM
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FolkSingerBlues
Posts: 554
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jakatx
So can you have faith without belief?
I desperately want to believe, but I have struggled with believing for a long time. I'm putting my hope in the idea that faith happens as a result of choosing to believe. I often pray that God will help me to believe - but if I don't truly believe, are my prayers being heard? Can I just keep "choosing to believe" - having faith - and praying that God will strengthen my faith - and eventually I will believe?
Very confused! Thanks for any input.
John 3:21
But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.
Psalm 34:5
Those who look to him are radiant; their faces are never covered with shame.
Psalm 34:8
Taste and see that the Lord is good; blessed is the man who takes refuge in him.
These are all promises that are made to man in The Word which is how the Holy Spirit teaches us. Take what you learn in your reading and apply it in your life. I believe that faith is a process that God leads us to by proving Himself trustworthy. The Holy Spirit can and will convict you through The Word.
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My New Blog site
Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
-Rich Mullins
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RE: Can we choose to believe? - 10/24/2008 1:34:22 AM
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theredhog
Posts: 56
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Jakatx,
quote:
So can you have faith without belief?
I desperately want to believe, but I have struggled with believing for a long time. I'm putting my hope in the idea that faith happens as a result of choosing to believe. I often pray that God will help me to believe - but if I don't truly believe, are my prayers being heard? Can I just keep "choosing to believe" - having faith - and praying that God will strengthen my faith - and eventually I will believe?
Very confused! Thanks for any input.
Wow! I agree with Mannamuncher. It's God's plan for us to seek after Him...Acts 17. We were made by Him and FOR Him.
What, specifically, do you feel like you have a problem with in believing? The existence of God, the deity of Christ? The cross and resurrection?
redhog
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RE: Can we choose to believe? - 10/25/2008 9:08:45 AM
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abraxas
Posts: 334
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jakatx
So can you have faith without belief?
I desperately want to believe, but I have struggled with believing for a long time. I'm putting my hope in the idea that faith happens as a result of choosing to believe. I often pray that God will help me to believe - but if I don't truly believe, are my prayers being heard? Can I just keep "choosing to believe" - having faith - and praying that God will strengthen my faith - and eventually I will believe?
Very confused! Thanks for any input.
I suppose if it's not crucial that your belief actually be tied to "what is True", (e.g. looking for some 'anchor' in your life) then you might consider hypnotism. If aligning your beliefs with "what is True" is important, you might still consider hypnotism, but you'd have to take care to select the correct belief to be hypnotized into.
But if you managed to identify that, you wouldn't need the hypnotism!
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RE: Can we choose to believe? - 10/25/2008 10:35:42 PM
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jakatx
Posts: 2
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redhog: in answer to your question - what i have a hard time believing in is the existence of God. i want to believe, but logic and reason take over and I start to question things.
mannamuncher - you mentioned trust...i hadn't thought about that. Maybe all I need to start off is to trust that God will lead me, keep seeking, and allow it to happen.
thanks to all - you've given me lots to think about.
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RE: Can we choose to believe? - 10/26/2008 12:08:09 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1886
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From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
i want to believe, but logic and reason take over and I start to question things.
Out of curiosity, how do logic and reason interfere with a belief in God? : )
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Can we choose to believe? - 10/27/2008 5:40:38 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1886
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From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
They don't, unless they are flawed.
I'd agree. God can't be proven or disproven with logic - or anything else, for that matter. If He could be, it would destroy faith.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Can we choose to believe? - 10/29/2008 8:27:59 AM
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inkeeper
Posts: 1
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My short answer to the question of "whether you can choose to believe" is no.
I think "believing" means to consciously accept something as fact and act in accordance with that belief. This may not be the true meaning of believing but it's the best I can come up with.
If someone you really trust tells you about something that you have never heard of before and have no "reason" to doubt, then you believe them. If you have some previous knowledge or experience that suggests that what they are talking about is "untrustworthy" then you "doubt it" or don't believe.
You "can choose" to investigate an idea, concept or "religion" that you've come across or just thought of until you are "convinced" of its "truth". Once you are "convinced" then you "believe"...
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RE: Can we choose to believe? - 10/30/2008 2:04:19 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1826
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
They don't, unless they are flawed.
I'd agree. God can't be proven or disproven with logic - or anything else, for that matter. If He could be, it would destroy faith.
Not necessarily. The Holy Spirit teaches that the existence of the Creator is established through His creation (Rom. 1:19,20). In fact, according to these Scriptures, God uses creation to show Himself -- His eternal power and Godhead -- through creation.
That is logic, since it follows the Law of Cause and Effect.
This brings us to modern notion that if there is design in the universe, there must be a Designer. That is both logic and reason.
As to being able to choose to believe, God has placed within man the capacity to do so. That is precisely why the Gospel must be preached to every individual (Mk. 16:15,16). It is the Gospel that generates faith in the human heart through the power of the Holy Spirit (Rom. 10:17).
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Can we choose to believe? - 10/30/2008 12:36:39 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1886
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From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
The Holy Spirit teaches that the existence of the Creator is established through His creation (Rom. 1:19,20). In fact, according to these Scriptures, God uses creation to show Himself -- His eternal power and Godhead -- through creation.
That assumes the authority of Scripture.
quote:
That is logic, since it follows the Law of Cause and Effect.
That assumes God is the First Cause - but why, if God can be without Cause, cannot the universe be without Cause?
quote:
This brings us to modern notion that if there is design in the universe, there must be a Designer. That is both logic and reason.
Even if the universe is designed (which is questionable - do we recognize design, or do we, out of some internal need for design, impose it on chaos?), who's to say it is God who does the designing?
Don't misunderstand. I fully believe in the Christian view of God. I just don't like to pretend He can be proven. If God is proven, faith is dead.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Can we choose to believe? - 11/1/2008 1:24:13 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 587
Joined: 12/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
Don't misunderstand. I fully believe in the Christian view of God. I just don't like to pretend He can be proven. If God is proven, faith is dead.
MrFribbles,
I think that what Ezra might be defending is the belief that God is knowable, that is, He can be known. And that He reveals Himself through His creation. In other words, God gives us reasons to believe in Him. After all, the Christian faith should not be devoid of reason and logic, don't you agree?
While some things can never be fully known nor understood in this life (ex. the mystery of evil, the mystery of creation - making something from nothing), God has given the world the beauty of His creation, and the gift of His Son Jesus Christ, and these are reasons to believe in God. So, our faith works in conjuntion with reason. And, as God reveals Himself to us more and more as we grow in His grace, our faith in Him increases.
Heavendweller
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See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. I John 3:1
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RE: Can we choose to believe? - 11/1/2008 3:48:33 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1886
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
After all, the Christian faith should not be devoid of reason and logic, don't you agree?
I quite agree. I have nothing wrong with saying there is evidence - strong evidence - for the Christian faith, because I think there is. I just dislike hearing that it can be proven.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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