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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 2:52:38 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 9189
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SurpassingPeace
...Contrary to popular belief, hospitals do not have to except anything you send them...
We have two large hospitals in my city. What you said is true of one; it's privately owned. The other one cannot refuse to treat anyone and must accept any attempt to repay, no matter how small. Upon death, any remaining bill of the uninsured is written off.
Believe it or not, both hospitals are equally respected in the area. And, even though my wife retired from the privately owned hospital, neither of us are hesitant to use the second hospital.
BTW, I'm technically retired (was over 50 when I was laid off in 2006) and my former employer pays 60% of my medical insurance. My share of the premiums is $670 a month. For our age, that's not out of line for this area.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 3:04:32 PM
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macokjc
Posts: 502
Joined: 2/24/2008
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Having health insurance is like car insurance or like homeowners insurance. It really is not for the $75 doctor visit here and there or for the $15 dollar antibiotic that your healthy child needs every couple of years. It is for the unforeseen, otherwise catastrophic event that you could have no way of paying. There are people with cancer that easily top out at a million dollars worth of care. Children born with life-long disabilities that need care. Accidents happen that can result in hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical payment. It is a risk that each and every person must weigh, and contrary to popular beliefs, hospitals do not always write off the cost of the uninsured, especially if they can prove that you have income and assets, including a house, car, and life insurance policies. Most of us would not dream of living without homeowner's insurance; health insurance should be looked at the same way.
The difference between you and Surpassing Peace is how you have to buy your policies. You buy for yourself, you don't have the bargaining power of employee-sponsored health care. Health care for an individual is very expensive for many different reasons. Our COBRA insurance (before the stimulus plan) would cost $1200. To purchase an independent policy for our family with a high deductible and co-pay (In the tens of thousands) would be between $400-$500, and those policies almost never include maternity.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 3:07:08 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 486
Joined: 4/12/2005
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As a follower of Jesus I can't help but ask: Did Jesus have Health Insurance?
Fact is the health insurance subject makes my blood boil, because FEAR of the unknown is where far to many people place their arguments for health insurance and/or for government run health insurance entitlements. So in saying this I'll stick with what I said in my first post in this thread, and just lurk.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 3:13:01 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 9189
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
As a follower of Jesus I can't help but ask: Did Jesus have Health Insurance?
Did Jesus have a house? Did Jesus have a car? Did Jesus have home-owners insurance? Did Jesus have car insurance? Did Jesus need to go to a doctor? Did Jesus have a microwave capable of popping popcorn?
I sincerely am not sure what questions like that have to do with our responsibilities to our families and stewardship of the things God has entrusted us with.
And 1970 was 40 years ago. A lot of water has gone under that bridge...
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 3:24:34 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5254
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
The difference between you and Surpassing Peace is how you have to buy your policies. You buy for yourself, you don't have the bargaining power of employee-sponsored health care.
That's a very good point. Although our church paid for our insurance, it was in our name and they reimbursed us for it. My husband's current job does not offer insurance.
When he worked for Walmart, he was able to get an amazing deal on health insurance. We only paid about $30 a month during that period. We still never used the insurance, but the price was good enough it didn't make sense not to take it. We still worked with it to get high deductibles so it was only for a catastrophic medical situation.
It's nice if businesses can offer insurance, but not all of them can. I wonder why insurance companies can give such good deals to businesses and such lousy rates to individuals?
_____________________________
Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 3:33:28 PM
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Miss Giggles
Posts: 4475
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: MI
Status: online
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macokjc said it perfectly.
I don't think I am entitled to health insurance, but when it's unaffordable to more and more of the population it is a problem. When it costs more than your rent than its a problem. Some of us don't have thousands of dollars left over a month.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 3:47:36 PM
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SurpassingPeace
Posts: 1381
Joined: 11/21/2007
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One of the factors that goes into my husband's selection of a job si the health insurance. Getting a good rate on it factors into the financial decision.
Consecrated, the reason groups get a better deal is because the higher the numbers of people the lower the cost, in general. Also, my husband's employer greatly subsidizes our insurance.
Eutychus, I know some hospital's write off some or all unpaid debt. The hospitals in Missouri, becuase it differs state to state, do not have to and the only way you can make sure they don't sue for payment of the bill is to negotiate a payment plan with them. Even then I recommend you get it in writing.
The fact that Jesus didn't have health insurance is, as Eutychus so ably demonstrated, irrelevant.
Look, health insurance is not a scare tactic. This is the system that has develop to try to provide health insurance to a huge, huge amount of people. When people compare us to Canada or Sweden, it just doesn't work. The difference in population makes the logistics completely different.
I am not a huge fan of our health system. Of that 1600 ER bills for my daughter, I personally have to pay 400. But when I compare what insurance has paid and speculate, even conservatively, what they will continue to pay, it is a no brainer to me.
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Karen
Proud Member of the Imperfect Wives' Club
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 3:54:20 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 486
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL:Eutychus
A lot of water has gone under that bridge...
Yes, much of it Stinks to high heaven too.
quote:
and stewardship of the things God has entrusted us with.
God has entrusted us with heath insurance?? That's really stretching stewardship, if you ask me.
davelinde had it right, "The purpose of "insurance" is to pool risk so that the lack of issues for the many can pay for the catastrophe of the few."
And Then you retire, and have to buy private insurance which is not what you had nor at the same cost (cause you can't afford company/business rates (group insurance) and you loss what you had invest in your insurance pool for 35 or more years --- just in time --- when you may need it the most. What a rip-off. Health Insurances Companies are in business TO-Make-Money, just like any other profit making business.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 4:29:49 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 486
Joined: 4/12/2005
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BTW, I AM NOT against Health Insurance in and of it's self; I'm against the dictatorship it has turned into, and the fact that private insurance, for the most part, is unaffordable for the average person --- leading to government entitlements and/or socialized medicine. Health Insurance needs to be cleaned-up and totally taken out of the doctor's, and prescription/drug business'.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 4:42:01 PM
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SurpassingPeace
Posts: 1381
Joined: 11/21/2007
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Well come on Consecrated! Get on board. Can't you help a sister out? Seriously though, I agree there are so many problems. I have a couple of friends who are doctors and it is rough all the way around. One of them has a nursing home practice. He is a great guy. He has to wait anywhere from 6 months to over (way over) a year for Medicare to pay him. He isn't a big corporate entity. He is a man trying to support his family.
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Karen
Proud Member of the Imperfect Wives' Club
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 4:43:04 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 486
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
It sounds like you are getting a pretty good deal for your money. For our family size, we couldn't find anything in that price range that would cover all of that.
I'm not against health insurance. If it's a good deal for you, go for it.
I do have to wonder, though, if the way it used to be, like Pat-Rebel-Lady said, was better. My parents said that it used to be that insurance was looked upon as a form of gambling. My great-grandpa never did buy insurance. He didn't believe in it. He's the only millionaire in the family and he's paid all of his bills, plus many of his kids' and grand kids' bills. My family didn't have insurance while I was growing up, either. We could never afford it. When we were sick, we went to our family doctor and he took care of us and we paid him off when we had the money.
Now everyone is pushing for everyone to have insurance, and the uninsured are blamed for the high cost of medical care. I can't see how that is, since my uninsured grandparents and parents always paid for their medical care. I don't see why they should be required to carry it.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 4:44:19 PM
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davelinde
Posts: 1005
Joined: 5/5/2006
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Health Insurance needs to be cleaned-up and totally taken out of the doctor's, and prescription/drug business'.
Actually I think health insurers are separate businesses from medical practices, hospitals and pharmaceuticals. There's a nice friendly CE thread about all that.
Looking at where this thread is categorized... In OTHER countries where healthcare is centralized one important thing they attempt to do is minimize costs by applying early detection/treatment and improving the overall health of the population. It can be cheaper to KEEP people healthy than to MAKE them healthy once they get sick (in some circumstances).
The US system has no such motivation. The average insurance company has you as a risk (they call your care a "loss") for 6 years and for sure when you get to 65 you become the governments problem, so in OTHER places the insurance system has a motivation to keep you healthy - in the US the system is motivated to defer your medical expenses to later...
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 4:57:15 PM
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ladioffaith
Posts: 3413
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: NE Ohio (L.A. . . Lower Akron)
Status: offline
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I am single and pay more than $1,100 a year in health insurance premiums. This is for coverage with a $1,000 (now 2 grand) deductible.
My insurance gives me $500 (now $600) a year to pay my bills. I visit a doctor as infrequently as I can and have to keep my expenses under that (due to the ridiculous deductible) or literally die trying.
For meds, I use the $4 plans.
But if I were to have surgery, a heart attack or any other problem, I would be up a creek and thankful I have insurance. There are others around here who have used their insurance more than me.
One benefit of insurance .... rates are significantly lower because of negotiated discounts. So a panel of blood work that they would charge an uninsured person (or someone out of the network) $2,500 for costs me less than $100. Something is wrong with that picture ...
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The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save.
He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 5:03:33 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 9189
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
quote:
and stewardship of the things God has entrusted us with.
God has entrusted us with heath insurance?? That's really stretching stewardship, if you ask me.
Risking losing everything to a half a million dollar series of cancer treatments is, IMHO, poor stewardship of the FINANCES He has provided when I can minimize that loss through a sacrifice of monthly medical premiums.
I'd feel like the worst kind of horrible husband if I left my wife penniless or with a mountain of medical bills if I can avoid it.
That's what I meant by stewardship - wise use of funds in today's realities.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 5:05:53 PM
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solo_soprano24
Posts: 2006
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Health insurance can be very costly. Many of us would pay much, much less per month if we just paid for expenses as they came up.
Even if something really horrible happened and someone ended up with a really big hospital bill, couldn't they make payments on it that would be about what health insurance would have cost them had they had it? Even if they got cancer and then died before they were able to pay off their bill, the hospital could settle out of the person's estate.
What are your thoughts?
My doctors won't see me unless I pay right then. I can't do the "get treated now and pay later" thing, unless they didn't charge me enough-- THEN they send me a bill. I don't think it's a law that people have to treat you even if you can't pay; that usually comes up when something is life-threatening or can become so (that I see). I'd love to have payment plans, but my doctors don't do that.
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For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 5:22:21 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 486
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ladioffaith
One benefit of insurance .... rates are significantly lower because of negotiated discounts. So a panel of blood work that they would charge an uninsured person (or someone out of the network) $2,500 for costs me less than $100. Something is wrong with that picture ...
I remember in the 70's; when more and more companies were starting to offer employees group health insurance; the doctors receptionists first question was "Insurance or cash payments?" I said, "Cash payment as always, but why do you ask?" I was told because they charged more to insurance companies because of the paperwork involved. Now look how far we have come, completely the flip-side.
quote:
ORIGINAL: davelinde
Actually I think health insurers are separate businesses from medical practices, hospitals and pharmaceuticals.
I wish that were true.
quote:
There's a nice friendly CE thread about all that.
And Boring (limited to Current Events) too; if we're talking about the same thread.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 7:07:58 PM
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heremainsfaithful
Posts: 1137
Joined: 10/14/2009
From: Alabama
Status: offline
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I don't know how much our family coverage costs exactly...because the school system where I teach pays a major portion of it. And thank goodness. H has diabetes, and I have a chronic physical condition as well. That's insulin pump, doctor, insulin, test strips, medications, doctor, and blood work for me. If I said goodbye to insurance right now, unless God really did throw money from the sky or heal us, within six months we would be really sick or possibly really dead. Those are just the cold facts. I am very happy for those who are able to just pay for things or who are so healthy that they don't need medicine every single day. H and I are not those people. Rush Limbaugh has spoken out about health insurance a lot on his radio program. I guess if I made his money I would too, cause I wouldn't need it.
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Jer. 29:11, II Tim. 2:13, Jude 24, 25
https://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.aspx?bookid=58896
Eihstein's IQ may be higher than mine, but God's IQ is higher than anyone's.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 9:14:23 PM
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Psalms274
Posts: 2204
Status: offline
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quote:
If a person had medical bills that totalled $100,000 and they made monthly payments on them in the same amount that they would have paid in health insurance, I
Assuming that they are NOT charging you interest on the balance (which is highly unlikely, most charge interest) paying $250 a month on a $100,000 bill will take 33.33 years to pay off. If they charge as little as 3% interest, your principle is never touched with that $250 payment per month. That does not take into consideration the times in the next 33.33 years that you will need medical intervention again. If you top that off with an unforeseen loss of income due to either layoffs or disability, it can easily lead to financial ruin. And the $100,000 number is actually rather small compared to the cost of a long term illness. My mom has Rheumatory Arthritis and receives a shot every two weeks that would cost her $1,378 per shot. (That comes to $35,828 per year.) Her insurance takes care of that save the $25 co-pay. Add to that all of the tests required to insure her liver and kidneys are intact because of possible side effects from the drugs, the surgeries needed, the many, many doctor visits ... the insurance pays out far more than she will ever pay in. In her case, health insurance is extremely important. The thing is we just do not know what will happen. Her total medical expenses can easily top $50,000 a year. Last year she broke her back and had some complications that lead to her spending time in the ICU and an unexpected surgery. Her total for last year alone was close to $140,000. Medicine is very expensive.
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I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 10:09:46 PM
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Walker311
Posts: 908
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Lisa,
We found out over a year ago that my wife had breast cancer. I shudder to think what we would be facing if we did not have insurance.
Anyone who is gambling that they will somehow be able to get by without having hospitalization or life insurance will ultimately lose... and the greatest loss will be the affects of their stupidity on their loved ones.
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RE: Why is health insurance so important? - 3/2/2010 10:55:38 PM
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Grace71
Posts: 513
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: online
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My father got very sick, went to the er, ended up in icu, spent twenty days in the hospital, and sadly died. The total cost? $180,000.00. My mom was disabled and due to a certain law, they could not come after her for the money or take the house due to her disability. I shudder to think what would have happened had she not been sick herself.
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