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Is it the end of the Republic?
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Total Votes : 17
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(last vote on : 9/3/2010 4:14:26 PM)
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Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/24/2010 12:23:54 AM
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mikeman2
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http://www.examiner.com/x-41012-Inland-Empire-Religion--Politics-Examiner~y2010m7d13-Obama-Commissioners-Warns-Death-of-US-by-Fiscal-Cancer-A-Must-Read
Apparently Obama has appointed a bipartisan committee to determine the state of affairs of the US regarding its debt. A man by the name of Erskine Bowles has come up with an answer. He says that unless something is done to change the course of the fiscal state of the union, the US is headed for a predictable economic crisis unlike any they have ever seen. In fact, he says that there is not even a way to tax our way out of the crisis. What must be done is slash spending and generate revenue to avert the crisis. He even goes so far to say that this looming crisis is the #1 threat to the welfare of the Republic. He estimates that things may continue as they are for around 5 years before it all begins to fall apart.
So the question begs, is Obama and company enemy #1? Do they represent the greatest threat to the survival of the Republic?
_____________________________
Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on.
-Winston Churchill.
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/24/2010 12:50:17 AM
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Timcp
Posts: 507
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mikeman2
http://www.examiner.com/x-41012-Inland-Empire-Religion--Politics-Examiner~y2010m7d13-Obama-Commissioners-Warns-Death-of-US-by-Fiscal-Cancer-A-Must-Read
Apparently Obama has appointed a bipartisan committee to determine the state of affairs of the US regarding its debt. A man by the name of Erskine Bowles has come up with an answer. He says that unless something is done to change the course of the fiscal state of the union, the US is headed for a predictable economic crisis unlike any they have ever seen. In fact, he says that there is not even a way to tax our way out of the crisis. What must be done is slash spending and generate revenue to avert the crisis. He even goes so far to say that this looming crisis is the #1 threat to the welfare of the Republic. He estimates that things may continue as they are for around 5 years before it all begins to fall apart.
So the question begs, is Obama and company enemy #1? Do they represent the greatest threat to the survival of the Republic?
Wow, this administration appointed a guy with some economic clarity for once. At least that's a start. I wasn't able to examine the source you cited as it said it was down for maintenance. But I think when God willing Christians who take the time to read the U.S. Constitution will be comforted by Article 4 Section 4 which states:
Section. 4.
'The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.' (1.)
1. http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
That's every state in the Union all 50. So we Christians should be very vocal and pro-active as the Constitution is on our side. And at worst we could see a dissolution of the Union, but many of the overtly heavily populated Christian states Texas, Utah, Oklahoma, Kansas etc. would maintain a Republican form of Government. While those Democrats who make the mistake of wanting true democracy will find out exactly why the Founder's spoke out against it.
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/24/2010 1:04:47 AM
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Marcus.
Posts: 3004
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IMHO that is the purpose behind running the debt load so high. This is a conscious, intentional decision and action to create a crisis that the Left can use to dissolve the Constitution. Or attempt it.
_____________________________
"The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience." --French Algerian author Albert Camus (1913-1960)
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/24/2010 1:30:47 AM
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Avicenna
Posts: 113
Joined: 7/7/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
IMHO that is the purpose behind running the debt load so high. This is a conscious, intentional decision and action to create a crisis that the Left can use to dissolve the Constitution. Or attempt it.
wow...
just... huh.... really?
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/24/2010 4:20:32 AM
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tacitus
Posts: 2582
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
IMHO that is the purpose behind running the debt load so high. This is a conscious, intentional decision and action to create a crisis that the Left can use to dissolve the Constitution. Or attempt it.
Marcus... sorry to say this, but that's just nuts!!
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/24/2010 4:59:41 AM
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lbarn003
Posts: 378
Joined: 6/26/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
IMHO that is the purpose behind running the debt load so high. This is a conscious, intentional decision and action to create a crisis that the Left can use to dissolve the Constitution. Or attempt it.
Wow... Do the republicans want to dissolve the Constitution, too?? They must since we had a surplus before Bush took office, yet somehow ended up in trillions of dollars of debt after. I'm not saying Obama has done any better, but don't forget who started this mess!!
P.S.... That really belongs in the "Conspiracy" thread.
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/24/2010 5:17:52 AM
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Ross.Lang
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Actually, I always thought about it the other way. Since the NeoCons have traditionally been the deficit kings (and still are; the idea that Obama has passed Bush is easily debunked), I always thought that the idea went like this:
Neocon: The government is wasteful, it can't manage its money!
*Neocon signs into law a tax cut that guts the budget and makes the nation run deficits*
Neocon: Look what a mess (I made) the federal governemnt is! We should turn their jobs over to companies.
And so it goes. I even heard one person suggest that the reason Regan was such a horribly inept manager of the federal government was so that all his predictions about the government's failings and weaknesses would actually be true.
-Ross
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/24/2010 10:36:50 AM
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mikeman2
Posts: 324
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ross.Lang
Actually, I always thought about it the other way. Since the NeoCons have traditionally been the deficit kings (and still are; the idea that Obama has passed Bush is easily debunked), I always thought that the idea went like this:
Neocon: The government is wasteful, it can't manage its money!
*Neocon signs into law a tax cut that guts the budget and makes the nation run deficits*
Neocon: Look what a mess (I made) the federal governemnt is! We should turn their jobs over to companies.
And so it goes. I even heard one person suggest that the reason Regan was such a horribly inept manager of the federal government was so that all his predictions about the government's failings and weaknesses would actually be true.
-Ross
You all would make fabulous politicians in Washington. All this finger pointing and no solutions. Guess what, Obama is just "W" on steroids. So does that make everyone happy?
So whether this was done intentially or not is beside the point. The point of the article is that those in charge are public enemy #1 to the Republic. It is a predictable and inevitable crisis coming down the pike and no one is Washington is doing anything about it. Instead, they throw gas on the fire by creating bigger and better entitlements.
The last time the Republic faced such a threat was during the Civil War. In fact, I think most would agree that Licoln probably would have looked the other way concerning slavery if the South would have chosen not to try to succeed. So was protecting slavery a justification for preserving the union? Was the union worth it? Regardless of your answer, the question now becomes, are entitlements worth the cost of the Republic? Then again, if the Republic folds no one gets anything anymore. So was it worth it Mr. President?
So what of the intellectual giant that the left proports Obama to be. Is he deaf, dumb, or sinister? It is an either or choice.
_____________________________
Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on.
-Winston Churchill.
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/24/2010 5:37:49 PM
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awstar
Posts: 76
Joined: 6/17/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Is that why a Democrat (Clinton) is the only president in the past 30 years to have reduced the deficit? The man is a moral pig but you can't argue that he was a deficit spender in his second term.
Wasn't the second term of Clinton where the Republicans ran the House (and spending), while the second term of Bush II where the Dem's ran the House (and spending)?
And wasn't Erskine Bowles Clinton's chief of staff in his second term so his comments should carry even more weight? It's not like he's some tea party right wing extremist.
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/24/2010 5:53:20 PM
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tacitus
Posts: 2582
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quote:
The last time the Republic faced such a threat was during the Civil War.
Oh, phooey. World War II and the Cold War, to name but two threats that were far greater than anything we are experiencing today. The Cuban Missile Crisis is probably the single closest moment the US came to annihilation (and it was darned close) since the Civil War and there is has been nothing remotely close to it since. And how can you claim that there is anything today that is a greater threat to America and its values than the 100 year systematic and government endorsed disenfranchisement of an entire class of people based solely upon the color of their skin.
To claim that the petty squabbles and alarmism of a bunch of far-right conservatives is more significant than any of these things I listed (and many more) is to do a great disrespect for those who lived and suffered through those times, and fought to keep America safe.
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/24/2010 7:00:43 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3440
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quote:
Wasn't the second term of Clinton where the Republicans ran the House (and spending), while the second term of Bush II where the Dem's ran the House (and spending)?
GOP House control from Jan. 20 2001 until Jan 20 2007. GOP Senate control from Jan 20 2001 until about June or so and again on Jan. 20 2003 until Jan. 20 2007.
_____________________________
This is our new kitty and we have a new cat who must be so fat I can't crop a picture of him to fit my CW Avatar. His name is Tom Riddle. This little guy here I found in the yard in May, this is Cosmo.
--Roger--
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/24/2010 7:43:08 PM
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Timcp
Posts: 507
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George Bush Jr. is used by Liberal progressives to bash Republicans, guess what, the guy wasn't a Republican. He was a Fascist with his government bail outs, and a bit Communist by passing eminent domain. And regarding eminent domain, you didn't see the Democrats speak up a bit either. That's because it fits in line with the progressives and their Socialist movements of big government, while they move toward nationalized health-care at the same time. This current administration followed right in Bush Jr.'s footsteps by providing corporation bailouts too, and now they want nationalized health-care as well. Both moderate Democrats and Republican parties are being infiltrated by Fascists and Socialists tainted with a speckle of Communism too. None of what they did is located in the U.S. Constitution. And anything they did today could have been done when the Founders were alive, and none of the Founders even came close to doing what the last three Presidents have tried to accomplish. Let's not forget who said: Read my lips no new taxes. It was Bush Sr., then he raised taxes. Who said: New World Order? Bush Sr. So it's on both sides. Henry Kissinger promoted the current President to reign in a New World Order. It just keeps on steam rolling.
I wish there was a spot that said: Waiting until the next Presidential election before saying yes or no. I would have chosen that one.
Actually, just to think on the topic. In the U.S.A. the Union made it through 25% unemployment during the Great Depression, so maybe 25% unemployment would be too much for this generation, I don't know. But if nationalized health-care took affect and before 2017 we were at 33% unemployment, with a municipal bond collapse and one maybe two or more U.S. states defaulting with the Dow collapsing down to 1,000 or less. The U.S. Republic could very well be on the verge of a possible dissolution of the Union. I don't think the moderate Democrats and true Republicans would put up with that level of economic break down. That's my theory. I pray it won't happen regardless of which political party is in office, I just wish they were all God fearing Christians and had better economic sense.
< Message edited by Timcp -- 7/25/2010 12:05:42 AM >
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/24/2010 7:49:00 PM
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Marcus.
Posts: 3004
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From: Minnesota
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I know a large number of my friends consider both parties as being owned by global businesses.
_____________________________
"The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience." --French Algerian author Albert Camus (1913-1960)
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/24/2010 7:55:11 PM
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Timcp
Posts: 507
Joined: 3/10/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
I know a large number of my friends consider both parties as being owned by global businesses.
I think that's why you're seeing the tea party movement take place. People are angry and feel they're not being heard, so they protest. Corruption is a seed that is destructive and if global businesses with the financial means to sway votes can get their way, then that's what happens. It's sad.
_____________________________
http://askdrbrown.org/
http://www.levitt.com
http://www.harvest.org/
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/25/2010 2:06:07 AM
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mikeman2
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Wow! I simply use an article where the President appointed committee says that the Republic is headed towards self destruction and I get moved to a conspiracy forum?
_____________________________
Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on.
-Winston Churchill.
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/25/2010 2:08:31 AM
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mikeman2
Posts: 324
Joined: 9/23/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Timcp
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
I know a large number of my friends consider both parties as being owned by global businesses.
I think that's why you're seeing the tea party movement take place. People are angry and feel they're not being heard, so they protest. Corruption is a seed that is destructive and if global businesses with the financial means to sway votes can get their way, then that's what happens. It's sad.
What is sad is that the public will turn to the Republican party next election who will more than likely do next to nothing about the looming crisis. Of course, even if they wanted to do something you know who is waiting with the veto.
_____________________________
Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on.
-Winston Churchill.
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/25/2010 2:53:47 AM
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Marcus.
Posts: 3004
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mikeman2
Wow! I simply use an article where the President appointed committee says that the Republic is headed towards self destruction and I get moved to a conspiracy forum?
I may have caused that by my honest opinion on the matter in post 3 and the resulting comments afterwards.
_____________________________
"The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience." --French Algerian author Albert Camus (1913-1960)
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/25/2010 7:23:42 PM
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sharonjef2007
Posts: 3347
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
I know a large number of my friends consider both parties as being owned by global businesses.
Both parties are corrupt. I'm trying to think of a tougher word than corrupt, but I may get tossed out from TOS violations.
I do think that the USA that was envisioned by the founders, the people who wrote our Constitution, has come and gone. What is left is a watered down version of socialism. So if you are looking at the present through the eyes of the people who created this country, I think they would be beyond sad.
I have zero faith in any Republican or Democrat. Some more than others, but I don't trust one of them.
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/25/2010 8:07:22 PM
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Milliecat
Posts: 1510
Joined: 11/13/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
It's just my opinion about Pres O and his backers from the far left. I know I can be wrong. I have on these things before. And if I'm wrong I'll change my attitude about him.  But it is still the feeling I get from him, all of his czars, and the far left he came out of prior to the Presidency.  He and Sarah Palin both seem to have been the most inexperienced politicians we have ever had run for office before. 
As far as chatting about the deficiencies and flaws of administrations , I'm sure we would agree on many points on many administrations. There are so many to pick from in each one. 
Marcus, I would agree with you on everything but Sarah Palin. She has been in city government and state government. Many presidents have been former governors because they know how to run things after managing a state. I would simply say that Sarah Palin is not a graduate of an Ivy League school and therefore, everyone makes fun of her and tries to destroy her character. It is only the elites and their followers who are trying to convince the public that she is stupid. However, the American people, in general, like her.
Well, I guess I'll leave it at that instead of getting on my soapbox about Obama. However, you were also right that he is the most inexperienced president we've ever had.
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/25/2010 8:13:57 PM
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Milliecat
Posts: 1510
Joined: 11/13/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: awstar
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Is that why a Democrat (Clinton) is the only president in the past 30 years to have reduced the deficit? The man is a moral pig but you can't argue that he was a deficit spender in his second term.
Wasn't the second term of Clinton where the Republicans ran the House (and spending), while the second term of Bush II where the Dem's ran the House (and spending)?
And wasn't Erskine Bowles Clinton's chief of staff in his second term so his comments should carry even more weight? It's not like he's some tea party right wing extremist.
The Republican Congress is the reason why there was a reduction in the defecit. I don't think Erskine Bowles had much to do with it. However, the truth remains that since 2000, things have gone south with 9/11, two wars and now all of these socialist programs which we cannot pay for. I'm actually worried for the first time in my life because the Chinese are buying our corporations. Our country is owned by the Chinese and that is not only scary but, for lack of a better word, humiliating.
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/25/2010 8:25:20 PM
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Milliecat
Posts: 1510
Joined: 11/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
quote:
The last time the Republic faced such a threat was during the Civil War.
Oh, phooey. World War II and the Cold War, to name but two threats that were far greater than anything we are experiencing today. The Cuban Missile Crisis is probably the single closest moment the US came to annihilation (and it was darned close) since the Civil War and there is has been nothing remotely close to it since. And how can you claim that there is anything today that is a greater threat to America and its values than the 100 year systematic and government endorsed disenfranchisement of an entire class of people based solely upon the color of their skin.
To claim that the petty squabbles and alarmism of a bunch of far-right conservatives is more significant than any of these things I listed (and many more) is to do a great disrespect for those who lived and suffered through those times, and fought to keep America safe.
"For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away: so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:39
"Watch therefore; for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come." Matthew 24:42
"Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh." Matthew 24:44
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RE: Is it the end of the Republic? - 7/25/2010 8:46:04 PM
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Marcus.
Posts: 3004
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Milliecat
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
It's just my opinion about Pres O and his backers from the far left. I know I can be wrong. I have on these things before. And if I'm wrong I'll change my attitude about him. But it is still the feeling I get from him, all of his czars, and the far left he came out of prior to the Presidency. He and Sarah Palin both seem to have been the most inexperienced politicians we have ever had run for office before.
As far as chatting about the deficiencies and flaws of administrations , I'm sure we would agree on many points on many administrations. There are so many to pick from in each one.
Marcus, I would agree with you on everything but Sarah Palin. She has been in city government and state government. Many presidents have been former governors because they know how to run things after managing a state. I would simply say that Sarah Palin is not a graduate of an Ivy League school and therefore, everyone makes fun of her and tries to destroy her character. It is only the elites and their followers who are trying to convince the public that she is stupid. However, the American people, in general, like her.
Well, I guess I'll leave it at that instead of getting on my soapbox about Obama. However, you were also right that he is the most inexperienced president we've ever had.
Thanks. I forgot about the time in city government. I agree. She is likable.
_____________________________
"The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience." --French Algerian author Albert Camus (1913-1960)
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Didn't Cheney say "Deficits don't matter"?
